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with Garrett Modell on the far right

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Bernie hi and Who am I ken r allen and

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and my end I'm Daniel Sheehan the the

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format of this is completely flexible we

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hope to have lots of audience

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participation but what we'd like to talk

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about I think our our our visions of

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where where the future of energy is and

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whether it's going to be the status quo

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or whether they're going to be major

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changes and how we look at energy and

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obviously from the point of view of SSC

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we're looking for breakthroughs I think

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once represented here I think would be a

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vacuum energy and second law primarily

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but there are other ones as well for

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instance low energy nuclear reactions i

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think Garrett's a little bit involved in

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that as well or just starting to but

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there are a number of them and i think

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all of us can see some of the fruits of

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the the current energy dilemma where the

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price of oil can can fluctuate between

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forty dollars a barrel one hundred fifty

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dollars a barrel leading to not just

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energy shortages but food shortages as

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the united states plows more of its a

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corn and makes it into biofuels and

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makes makes corn and expensive commodity

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on the world market or the disaster in

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the gulf that we're seeing unfold and

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may not be solved for many months or

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years ahead we pay the price energy is

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lifeblood of civilization without it you

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cannot have civilization but at the same

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time there are many drawbacks which

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we're seeing in terms of things like as

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broad as climate change global warming

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the rise in co2 levels in the atmosphere

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the acidification of the oceans many

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things so if we can find alternatives

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which are clean green plentiful high

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power densities and so on we this

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society may be one of the one of the

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Keystone's one of the linchpins in a

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revolution which which is not just an

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energy but in societal transformation in

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the way we stewart our planet so this

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will be a wide-ranging discussion and

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again we we would like to see as much

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audience participation as possible

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because we don't know very much up here

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I don't think

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I think it wants to start off with a few

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slides sorry really i thought you were

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ah there you are hello Thank You Daniel

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so what I want to do here is just in as

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Daniel suggested sort of stimulate

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discussion with talking about some of

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the basic energy principles that were

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that we're dealing with in trying to

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look for new energy and I'll go through

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these slides fairly quickly and just

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described my view on it we may or may

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not take you use these as a take-off for

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discussion depending on what other

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people have to say just in response to

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Kim and Daniel's quotes about zero point

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energy I just while they were talking I

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pulled this one up which is Albert

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Einstein's and he said classical

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thermodynamics is the only physical

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theory of universal content which I am

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convinced will never be overthrown um

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that's a nice one I actually put that

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have that at the end of one of my

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articles and if you look at what it says

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it's tautological it says classical

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thermodynamics will never be overthrown

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where it applies which means that it

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will never be overthrown where it is

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valid well that's fine but it will be

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overthrown where it is not valid I won't

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I'll leave it leave it as it is so I

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we've all talked a little bit about

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Maxwell's demon and I don't III agree

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with you know what everybody has said

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about it what I want to do is just talk

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a little bit about the second law of

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thermodynamics from just yet another

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perspective because it's such a profound

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profound law and that is that originally

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it was developed in its various forms

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and I think you quoted eighteen

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different variations of it was out

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correct to learn something like that it

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originally evolved from an experimental

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view of burning what happens if you

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convert heat into work and what the

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limits are then later it was

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reconstituted in its statistical form

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and it's statistical form simply says

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that you've got a couple of basic

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assumptions one is let's say that we've

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got a system of ideal gas in a chamber

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and so if we assume that that ideal gas

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is in a number accountable number of

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different configurations in other words

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we can either have this particle over

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here or over there or over there and the

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number of different states of that

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system can be somehow enumerated and

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it's a huge huge number that's one basic

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assumption and the other basic

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assumption is that these states are all

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equally likely so if you take those two

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ideas then you say okay let's put all of

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the gas into one half of the chamber and

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let time pass well the gas is going to

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redistribute itself over the entire

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chamber and it will get into a state in

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which it's got the most possible

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configurations so it's it will get into

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a state where it's spread out because

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that's the most possible ways that you

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can distribute the gas end up with their

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weather being in a state where its most

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spread out I didn't say that very well

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that I think you got the basic idea so

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uh and from that we can say what

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equilibrium is that equilibrium occurs

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when the gas or electrons or heat or

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particles or thoughts are in the most

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spread out state in the state of

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greatest multiplicity and so then we

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have good old Maxwell's demon who tries

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to disobey it and as Daniel Sheehan said

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ultimately the reason that Maxwell's

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demon cannot work in this type of a

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configuration has to do with information

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because he has to eject information when

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he forgets one configuration of the

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system to move to the next configuration

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and at this point it's pretty well

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established

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information entropy and thermodynamic

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entropy are the same thing so the second

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law of thermodynamics has been around I

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as I mentioned a little bit earlier and

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probably going to be end up being the

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conservative person on this panel just

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in that from my perspective I haven't

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seen deviations from it so we there are

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a number of different types of

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situations where we'd like to extract

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energy from a uniform distribution but

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we can't extract it from a uniform

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distribution unless there is a

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difference there needs to be some

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difference to drive it so imagine the

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ocean being totally flat and we want the

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flowing of water to then give us some

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sort of a harvestable energy and this is

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not exactly the second law of

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thermodynamics but it's pretty close to

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it saying that when you've got

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equilibrium when you've got a uniform

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distribution it's impossible to get work

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out of it now there are several

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ingenious schemes Daniels and Ken's

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which attempt to do so and I imagine it

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if they want they'll explain why this

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particular scheme doesn't apply in their

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situation i am bernie will talk about

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another one where we say this doesn't

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apply and that has to do with the

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zero-point energy because with zero

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point energy there is a situation in

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which the sea level is not flat and

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that's when you've got a Casimir cavity

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so when you at the mouth of the Casimir

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cavity inside the Casimir cavity there

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is a lower energy level than there is

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outside and you just can stand there for

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as long as you like and you will end up

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with this difference it's it's like

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Moses walking through the Red Sea and

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they're genuinely is this difference in

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the sea level so for that reason Bernie

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and I believe there's a possibility of

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harvesting a zero-point energy by making

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use of this difference as a driving

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force for in casimir cavities and again

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I'm not going to go into great detail

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here so

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something that's troubled me from the

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very beginning as I've been working with

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new energies and this has been for a

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number of years now is if there is an

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energy source presumably Nature has made

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use of it because nature is extremely

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ingenious either physical nature or a

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living nature and so let's look at some

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different forms of energy and see

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whether nature has made use of them so

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one for example and the mechanical

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gravitational energy well certainly

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Nature has made use of mechanical and

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gravitational energy and we see that all

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over the place second one what about

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chemical energy when we burn something

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or we have a chemical reaction well

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clearly we see that all over the place

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in nature and that that's that's a fine

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form for energy and so I've got

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confidence that we can use that what

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about the conversion of light into a

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usable form of energy let's say I never

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have seen a solar cell and I'm wondering

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is it possible to build a solar cell

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well on nature uses photosynthesis all

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the time and so that seems to me to be a

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pretty feasible one and i can see nature

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does it so what about electromagnetic

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let's say i want to build a motor in

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which i convert electricity into into

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work or electric potential into into

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work well certainly I see the effects of

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electromagnetics within nature not only

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enlightening but actually as many of us

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now know the electric universe is

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becoming something of a hot topic and

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that electricity drives not only things

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here on earth but it may very well drive

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cosmology what about a thermal or wind

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vibrational variations or wind if I want

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to build a windmill can I do it well we

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know that nature does make use of wind I

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so what else what about nuclear well you

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know we've got evidence that

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thermonuclear reactions are occurring in

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the Sun and in stars and so that seems

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like a reasonable thing for us to use

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well what about zero point energy and

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here I'm troubled and I put a big

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question mark up there may be zero point

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energy is being used as a source of

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energy within stars we don't really know

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we don't have evidence that it's not am

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I right Bernie so but the but we don't

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have evidence but it really is a point

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energy source so I don't know and that

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troubles me given that you know my lab

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has done a fair bit of work looking to

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harvest zero-point energy well and

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Garrett I mean zero point energy I mean

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with the zero-point feels important in

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dozens of different physical phenomena I

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mean certainly it's invoked from van der

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Waals forces and and spontaneous or

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maybe no question there are lots of

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physical manifestations of zero point

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energy so to say that it's that because

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an organism doesn't necessarily exploit

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it I mean it certainly is it's it's it's

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fundamental I me if you ask Dan Cole he

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says almost every process in nature

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depends on zero point energy when we

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were absolutely I agree I agree a

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hundred percent with everything you've

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said except the one part about

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exploiting because Nature doesn't you

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when we don't recognize it yet but it

274
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:46,890
may be there well actually I that may be

275
00:12:50,330 --> 00:12:48,930
true because when Bernie Bernie first

276
00:12:53,990 --> 00:12:50,340
approached me with a zero point energy

277
00:12:57,860 --> 00:12:54,000
idea I spent a lot of time fighting

278
00:12:59,840 --> 00:12:57,870
Bernie and I did some calculations to

279
00:13:01,700 --> 00:12:59,850
see what the pumping energy would be and

280
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:01,710
turned out the pumping energy for Bernie

281
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:04,560
scheme was fine then I did a number of

282
00:13:09,020 --> 00:13:06,210
things and in every case it came out

283
00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:09,030
okay another thing I did is I was

284
00:13:14,060 --> 00:13:10,980
thinking what we're in nature does the

285
00:13:16,340 --> 00:13:14,070
zero-point energy used and the one place

286
00:13:19,810 --> 00:13:16,350
that intrigues me and it still kind of

287
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:19,820
intrigues me is fungus and mushrooms

288
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:24,930
because we know that fungus are the

289
00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:26,220
biggest life-forms on Earth either

290
00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:27,750
fungus or aspen trees I'm not

291
00:13:32,540 --> 00:13:29,280
which but they're there they're

292
00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:32,550
absolutely huge you know their many the

293
00:13:38,180 --> 00:13:36,060
size of this hotel and we the

294
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:38,190
conventional wisdom is that fungus uses

295
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:41,730
a decaying organic matter as its energy

296
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:43,650
source on the other hand fungus has

297
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:45,690
these little tubes in it that sure are

298
00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:49,410
like casimir cavities and it just sort

299
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,180
of makes me wonder it would be a lot of

300
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:53,760
fun to try to do an experiment and see

301
00:14:00,740 --> 00:13:57,450
does fungus somehow produce more energy

302
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:00,750
than it appears to consume but you know

303
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:04,050
I'm still looking so I can I I agree

304
00:14:07,940 --> 00:14:05,250
with you you know they're there may be

305
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:07,950
forms we haven't found but it troubles

306
00:14:13,370 --> 00:14:10,890
me that we haven't found them and then

307
00:14:15,140 --> 00:14:13,380
this if we look at other sort of

308
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:15,150
potential steps and I use this potential

309
00:14:21,890 --> 00:14:19,440
step simply because of Daniels scheme

310
00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:21,900
which which involves a semiconductor

311
00:14:27,950 --> 00:14:25,140
Junction and have we seen nature make

312
00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:27,960
use of these things well we haven't and

313
00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:30,630
does that mean we can't do it no because

314
00:14:35,180 --> 00:14:32,700
we certainly go many places that nature

315
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:35,190
hasn't gone on the other hand it

316
00:14:41,510 --> 00:14:36,930
troubles me a little bit so I leave it

317
00:14:43,010 --> 00:14:41,520
at that well I'd like to make an

318
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:43,020
immediate response to the to the last

319
00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:44,490
argument which is that because nature

320
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:46,710
hasn't exploited it yet that somehow

321
00:14:51,170 --> 00:14:49,530
that we will not be able to either I

322
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:51,180
mean you don't look around you don't

323
00:14:56,660 --> 00:14:54,210
walk through Antarctica or I'll say the

324
00:14:58,700 --> 00:14:56,670
deep dark of Africa places people

325
00:15:00,140 --> 00:14:58,710
haven't been and find internal

326
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:00,150
combustion engines sitting on the ground

327
00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:02,250
they don't spontaneously rise in or do

328
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,070
747s we've been able to achieve

329
00:15:09,950 --> 00:15:07,680
temperatures down near you know 10 or

330
00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:09,960
100 nano Kelvin and nature only produces

331
00:15:13,310 --> 00:15:11,160
temperatures down to three kelp and

332
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:13,320
we've gone a temperature difference of a

333
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:14,910
factor of a million or a billion below

334
00:15:18,170 --> 00:15:17,130
what nature can achieve we have

335
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:18,180
computers which don't spontaneously

336
00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:21,600
arise so the fat and if you have if you

337
00:15:24,410 --> 00:15:23,160
have a gallon of gasoline sitting on on

338
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:24,420
in the middle of a field it's never

339
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:25,800
going to do anything without building an

340
00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:27,930
internal combustion engine to make use

341
00:15:31,220 --> 00:15:29,190
of it it's not going to do any really

342
00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:31,230
useful work for you it'll just simply

343
00:15:37,140 --> 00:15:35,470
degrade over time um nature

344
00:15:40,590 --> 00:15:37,150
should have built an internal combustion

345
00:15:43,230 --> 00:15:40,600
engine and I misspoke what I meant to

346
00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:43,240
say I thought I said it was it hasn't

347
00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:47,580
used a particular type of reaction right

348
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:49,780
right well as well the second law is a

349
00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:51,040
subtle thing I mean I certainly would

350
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:52,630
say that it hasn't there's no obvious

351
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,610
violation of it up to now but that

352
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:56,560
doesn't mean that a violation cannot be

353
00:16:01,830 --> 00:15:58,240
achieved through through clever

354
00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:01,840
construction now there are man-made

355
00:16:08,250 --> 00:16:05,470
things that do not exist in nature we

356
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:08,260
know that tornadoes and storms and other

357
00:16:13,050 --> 00:16:10,570
things like that are heat engines but

358
00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:13,060
they're open cycle we have closed cycle

359
00:16:16,950 --> 00:16:14,950
heat engines by the millions if not

360
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:16,960
billions on this planet and I have yet

361
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:20,560
to see one in nature again I think

362
00:16:33,150 --> 00:16:30,970
you're taking okay okay sure okay I'd

363
00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:33,160
like to address the first of Ken's

364
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:36,640
statements which is that somehow the the

365
00:16:41,790 --> 00:16:39,310
conformance of ideal gases and in finite

366
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:41,800
and finite containers to the second law

367
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:46,330
somehow extends to two other kinds of

368
00:16:50,730 --> 00:16:48,250
devices i think i think i can show that

369
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:50,740
it really doesn't and in fact the second

370
00:16:53,790 --> 00:16:52,330
law of devices least that our groups

371
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:53,800
proposing San Diego has more in common

372
00:16:59,640 --> 00:16:57,250
with with with with the zero-point

373
00:17:00,780 --> 00:16:59,650
engine you're talking about a zero-point

374
00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:00,790
engine you're talking about that you

375
00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:03,400
might imagine so let me use a some low

376
00:17:18,290 --> 00:17:05,020
tech stuff and kind of try to explain

377
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:21,360
okay from the audience how does how does

378
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:24,400
a hydroelectric power plant work what is

379
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:27,610
it what does it make use of makes use of

380
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:30,130
gravity but it's not just gravitational

381
00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:33,310
potential it's a gravitational potential

382
00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:43,170
water water in the back and the water

383
00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:45,400
falls through the damn turns a turbine

384
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:46,750
which turns a generator which makes

385
00:17:51,690 --> 00:17:49,360
electricity get that straight thank you

386
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:51,700
so you have a gravitational potential

387
00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:54,910
difference between pens not working very

388
00:18:00,930 --> 00:17:56,590
well as anyone have a pen many chance

389
00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:00,940
fell pen no okay gravitational potential

390
00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:02,830
gradient how about when you drive

391
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:06,430
electricity voltage does not does not

392
00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:08,710
accelerate charges it's a voltage

393
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:10,990
gradient that accelerates charges

394
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:13,690
electric field accelerate charges so

395
00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:15,850
it's the gradient in the potential that

396
00:18:19,550 --> 00:18:17,470
accelerates charges in any kind of

397
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:19,560
electronic device that accelerates

398
00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:23,050
masses in a gravitational field it's the

399
00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:26,740
gradient that does that so in in the PN

400
00:18:36,060 --> 00:18:28,180
junctions that we're being discussed

401
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:36,070
this afternoon I really need a does

402
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:39,330
anyone have anything like a felt pen

403
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:45,280
anything at all okay Oh a sharpie

404
00:18:54,499 --> 00:18:52,159
alright employment level okay so we have

405
00:18:56,779 --> 00:18:54,509
an N and P region here and as a result

406
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,789
of electrons going this way and holes

407
00:19:02,269 --> 00:18:58,799
going the other way we end up with an

408
00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:02,279
electric field in the material but it's

409
00:19:06,769 --> 00:19:05,340
very small it's micron sized and but but

410
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:06,779
it's that electric field that gets

411
00:19:11,149 --> 00:19:08,850
developed in this PN Junction which is

412
00:19:13,009 --> 00:19:11,159
ultimately exploited to create the

413
00:19:16,340 --> 00:19:13,019
energy to drive these oscillators that

414
00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:16,350
we my colleagues and I are working on so

415
00:19:21,169 --> 00:19:19,080
the same kinds of potentials different

416
00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:21,179
gradients that are used to drive regular

417
00:19:24,409 --> 00:19:22,200
electric circuits which you're familiar

418
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:24,419
with are the same kinds of electric

419
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:27,360
fields that we're exploiting at the

420
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:30,240
microscopic level for our devices the

421
00:19:33,259 --> 00:19:31,440
difference is the reason why these

422
00:19:35,389 --> 00:19:33,269
haven't been looked at is because

423
00:19:36,889 --> 00:19:35,399
they're microscopic in back 150 years

424
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:36,899
ago there's no one who could who could

425
00:19:41,659 --> 00:19:38,730
imagine or even think of something like

426
00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:41,669
a PN diode it wasn't available but it is

427
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:43,049
the gradient in the in the potential

428
00:19:46,909 --> 00:19:44,820
that's important and this is an

429
00:19:48,649 --> 00:19:46,919
equilibrium system this is thermal

430
00:19:51,950 --> 00:19:48,659
equilibrium thermal equilibrium does

431
00:19:54,499 --> 00:19:51,960
create and does have macroscopic

432
00:19:56,810 --> 00:19:54,509
potential gradients which can be

433
00:19:58,610 --> 00:19:56,820
exploited in the same fashion that the

434
00:20:01,549 --> 00:19:58,620
non-equilibrium ones which are created

435
00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:01,559
through electric generators or electric

436
00:20:06,649 --> 00:20:04,529
or chemical motors or whatever else also

437
00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:06,659
create so what we're doing is not that

438
00:20:09,860 --> 00:20:08,190
much different in a sense even from what

439
00:20:12,889 --> 00:20:09,870
you're doing you're you are creating

440
00:20:14,869 --> 00:20:12,899
boundary conditions with in order to

441
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:14,879
create cavities which have differential

442
00:20:19,509 --> 00:20:17,190
amounts of zero point in them we're

443
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:19,519
creating special geometries which create

444
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:22,710
gradients and differences in electric

445
00:20:26,180 --> 00:20:24,450
fields which allow us to do work to

446
00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:26,190
ultimately if you want to do work you

447
00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:27,960
need you need to have things like

448
00:20:33,289 --> 00:20:31,070
potential gradients and particle fluxes

449
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:33,299
equilibrium systems allow for this so

450
00:20:37,789 --> 00:20:35,610
and this is not an ideal gas but it is

451
00:20:40,129 --> 00:20:37,799
an equilibrium system so the various

452
00:20:42,409 --> 00:20:40,139
systems i've looked at plasma systems on

453
00:20:46,129 --> 00:20:42,419
solid state systems chemical systems all

454
00:20:47,810 --> 00:20:46,139
involve these macroscopic potential

455
00:20:50,690 --> 00:20:47,820
gradients which arise spontaneously at

456
00:20:51,769 --> 00:20:50,700
equilibrium and so i think they share so

457
00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:51,779
much in common with what we already

458
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:55,110
considered to be legitimate engines in

459
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:57,810
this case it's also an atomic process

460
00:21:01,580 --> 00:20:59,520
can be very different like we've seen

461
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:01,590
nature of quantum mechanics another

462
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,080
thing from our macroscopic experience

463
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:06,480
that that's right this this this invokes

464
00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:08,910
biomechanics and safaris you have you

465
00:21:13,070 --> 00:21:10,740
have band structures and so on yes rival

466
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:13,080
limited energy states to distribute the

467
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:16,020
time right listen that is the case

468
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:17,970
nonetheless these are not based on

469
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:20,010
fluctuations this is not a Maxwell demon

470
00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:21,810
there's not information being processed

471
00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:23,580
here by some sort of thinking creature

472
00:21:31,090 --> 00:21:26,790
this this this kind of machine doesn't

473
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:34,760
yeah yes the water falls off the falls

474
00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:36,960
off down damn and Drazen truth and so on

475
00:21:41,060 --> 00:21:39,030
Roger requires another source to get

476
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,070
that water back up to the top okay

477
00:21:44,810 --> 00:21:43,440
sometimes gotta cause rain the rain then

478
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:44,820
falls and he pisses me going is the

479
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:49,530
sound of driving that's correct okay so

480
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:50,880
so what you're saying is that you're

481
00:21:56,150 --> 00:21:54,540
you're exhausting a free energy system

482
00:21:57,740 --> 00:21:56,160
which and ultimately is the Sun fusion

483
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:57,750
energy to create the sunlight which

484
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,890
creates evaporation creates

485
00:22:01,790 --> 00:22:00,480
gravitational potential energy there is

486
00:22:03,260 --> 00:22:01,800
a difference that's right and that's why

487
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:03,270
I always violates the second law and the

488
00:22:07,460 --> 00:22:05,120
other ones don't is because I was

489
00:22:09,050 --> 00:22:07,470
regenerate themselves through strictly

490
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:09,060
thermal processes and that and so it

491
00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:10,290
kind of begs the question to say well

492
00:22:12,650 --> 00:22:11,430
they're different they are different

493
00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:12,660
because one violate the second law and

494
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:15,480
the other one doesn't but the processes

495
00:22:31,020 --> 00:22:29,460
that's correct that's right if we're

496
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:31,030
getting energy out of our system you

497
00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:32,710
actually play the first law against the

498
00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:34,600
second if you can if you can demonstrate

499
00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:36,460
the other work cycle that creates work

500
00:22:39,870 --> 00:22:38,500
there are two places the system can get

501
00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:39,880
work you can get it from internal energy

502
00:22:44,910 --> 00:22:41,590
or can get it from it can get it from

503
00:22:46,170 --> 00:22:44,920
heat and if you if you track all this

504
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:46,180
around you find that it has to come from

505
00:22:54,780 --> 00:22:47,440
heap because there's no other no other

506
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:54,790
place for it to come really yes that's a

507
00:23:00,000 --> 00:22:56,890
good let's start with that idea okay so

508
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:00,010
let's let's say we had a series of

509
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:01,570
second law violators and enough to fit

510
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:03,910
into a can size of a coffee can if you

511
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:05,770
were to draw in air from one side at

512
00:23:09,090 --> 00:23:07,450
about five meters a second and then and

513
00:23:11,370 --> 00:23:09,100
then cool the air as it comes to and

514
00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:11,380
loses its the air loses heat of let's

515
00:23:15,630 --> 00:23:13,780
say 10 or 15 degrees on this generator

516
00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:15,640
would produce probably about if you

517
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:18,700
couple kilowatts of power so you could

518
00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:20,440
basically run a typical us household on

519
00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:21,790
average with something about the size of

520
00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:24,550
a can so what would happen is that it

521
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:27,400
would draw air in from the room crew it

522
00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:29,370
turn that that heat into electricity

523
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:31,900
that electricity would be distributed to

524
00:23:36,750 --> 00:23:34,510
the computers to the ovens to the TV

525
00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:36,760
sets to everything else which ultimately

526
00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:39,400
turns up is heat and therefore would

527
00:23:42,930 --> 00:23:41,230
come back into the room so aside from

528
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:42,940
the initial startup of just a little bit

529
00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:46,170
of cooling your room runs basically

530
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:48,280
perpetually by just on its own heat

531
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:51,130
recycling it your air conditioner runs

532
00:23:58,850 --> 00:23:54,000
the rest of your house that's right yeah

533
00:24:04,620 --> 00:24:02,540
resources they seem to think that it's

534
00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:04,630
sufficient to demonstrate that you can

535
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:06,190
produce eat because then you can run a

536
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:07,810
car no end or something more

537
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:11,410
sophisticated if your second law

538
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:14,890
violators are drawing on to produce

539
00:24:22,140 --> 00:24:18,970
their motion burning image is not going

540
00:24:25,020 --> 00:24:22,150
to be very useful so how do you plan to

541
00:24:30,940 --> 00:24:25,030
get any energy out of this astronomical

542
00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:33,890
right this this in principle this can be

543
00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:37,500
written series of parallel to to build

544
00:24:41,780 --> 00:24:39,240
applied your current advantages in

545
00:24:43,910 --> 00:24:41,790
principle you could your various ways an

546
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:43,920
extract of taking this mechanical energy

547
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:45,210
and transducing it you can use piezo

548
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:46,770
electrics you could use faraday

549
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:48,650
induction their various ideas for that

550
00:24:52,790 --> 00:24:50,730
but there are other other ways of

551
00:24:54,140 --> 00:24:52,800
exploiting this these potential

552
00:24:55,970 --> 00:24:54,150
differences to you can use them to drive

553
00:24:57,170 --> 00:24:55,980
a lot of chemical reactions so in

554
00:24:58,970 --> 00:24:57,180
principle you could you could have gas

555
00:25:00,140 --> 00:24:58,980
phase I on a chemical reactions which

556
00:25:01,910 --> 00:25:00,150
are being driven and so you could just

557
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:01,920
have a small Power Cell here recycles

558
00:25:06,410 --> 00:25:04,770
chemicals through using these electric

559
00:25:08,030 --> 00:25:06,420
fields to build a pyre energy chemical

560
00:25:10,010 --> 00:25:08,040
products which are then burnt and then

561
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:10,020
create electricity that way so in that

562
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:11,130
sense you wouldn't even have to build

563
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:12,570
microscopic devices you can post only

564
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:14,970
macroscopic basically a specialized

565
00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:16,890
catalyst so this is mainly for

566
00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:18,420
demonstration purposes this is something

567
00:25:21,290 --> 00:25:19,920
that could be tested and demonstrate the

568
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:21,300
principle and there will be a lot of

569
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:23,210
environment so that I suspect I presume

570
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:25,530
could we get you to swap these and all

571
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:38,910
yesterday I have a question yes I'll be

572
00:25:47,450 --> 00:25:42,450
so zero point energy systems predicated

573
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:47,460
upon closed systems or open systems over

574
00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:49,530
there are based on closed system where

575
00:25:59,330 --> 00:25:52,350
is an example of closed system and if

576
00:26:02,360 --> 00:25:59,340
they are based an open system how I

577
00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:02,370
thought of a captain nope or give a

578
00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:04,920
second law devices at this point I yeah

579
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:07,380
but I mean yeah also O'Gara can probe

580
00:26:11,630 --> 00:26:08,340
dirty could probably answer that

581
00:26:14,350 --> 00:26:11,640
question well discussion zero-point

582
00:26:16,330 --> 00:26:14,360
energy casa para show

583
00:26:18,730 --> 00:26:16,340
upon a gradient that exists in nature

584
00:26:20,350 --> 00:26:18,740
that is the difference between me zero

585
00:26:21,970 --> 00:26:20,360
point energy outside Casper Academy this

586
00:26:24,010 --> 00:26:21,980
stuff it's very different dad's talking

587
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:24,020
about I think we finally finishing this

588
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:25,850
custom second law before you answer to

589
00:26:31,870 --> 00:26:28,370
discussion about internal energy but

590
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:31,880
everything thermal energy going

591
00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:36,650
someplace and that must be believed

592
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:38,750
no it's nothing to do it

593
00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:50,529
boiling of water well it dissipates into

594
00:26:59,940 --> 00:26:52,220
the environment in a way that we just

595
00:27:03,310 --> 00:26:59,950
don't recognize where it goes well it

596
00:27:06,610 --> 00:27:03,320
within our system here that the earth

597
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:06,620
radiates heat out into space on the dark

598
00:27:14,590 --> 00:27:08,240
side of the planet when the Sun isn't

599
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:14,600
shining light no no not really no the

600
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:16,970
earth is actually a giant here a giant

601
00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:20,720
heat engine if you want to look at 0

602
00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:24,260
plan or geo resources they were then for

603
00:27:31,779 --> 00:27:29,750
boggy he's dissipated it it diffuses

604
00:27:34,090 --> 00:27:31,789
into out into the solar system in

605
00:27:36,850 --> 00:27:34,100
universe where is that distant points in

606
00:27:38,529 --> 00:27:36,860
our galaxy we can look and some other

607
00:27:40,029 --> 00:27:38,539
intelligent being can look this way and

608
00:27:42,190 --> 00:27:40,039
say oh I see a fair amount of infrared

609
00:27:46,590 --> 00:27:42,200
energy coming off those planets by this

610
00:27:54,370 --> 00:27:46,600
star we call the sign here so it's it

611
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:54,380
sure sure it's legitimate that's allow

612
00:27:59,140 --> 00:27:56,570
me to cool the only discussion first

613
00:28:02,080 --> 00:27:59,150
second yep if anybody in the audience

614
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:02,090
has not picked up a package of sse

615
00:28:07,870 --> 00:28:04,370
business cards give your friends and

616
00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:07,880
neighbors i've got a few left so please

617
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:11,500
come see me if you haven't picked one up

618
00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:17,330
hang on hang on I'm not done my biggest

619
00:28:25,450 --> 00:28:21,880
concern with all of this is the

620
00:28:28,510 --> 00:28:25,460
emotional political influence on good

621
00:28:30,460 --> 00:28:28,520
science that is to a large extent

622
00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:30,470
ripping this country and the rest of the

623
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:33,590
world apart Spain is going broke because

624
00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:37,610
they invested heavily in windmills acres

625
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:42,020
and square miles of photovoltaic oval

626
00:28:49,630 --> 00:28:47,330
take energy systems are stupid what I

627
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:49,640
expect to happen is we'll have all the

628
00:28:55,570 --> 00:28:52,130
deserts covered with photocells and

629
00:28:57,490 --> 00:28:55,580
windmills on every corner and then cold

630
00:28:59,230 --> 00:28:57,500
fusion will go commercial

631
00:29:01,390 --> 00:28:59,240
will be the end of it well another thing

632
00:29:03,130 --> 00:29:01,400
will what another thing will stall the

633
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:03,140
wind and solar is that we still haven't

634
00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:05,360
solved the storage problem of nights and

635
00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:09,080
storm buddy well when we draw on some of

636
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:10,550
the expertise in the audience what where

637
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:13,010
do you see sociologically what do you

638
00:29:16,930 --> 00:29:14,720
think the ramifications would be of a

639
00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:16,940
breakthrough in this is it would it be

640
00:29:21,790 --> 00:29:18,470
ignored would it be embraced would it be

641
00:29:23,650 --> 00:29:21,800
squashed with you that's a really good

642
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:23,660
question I wanted to dance ask that all

643
00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:29,570
day today I in the classes I have a Utah

644
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:32,600
Valley University I teach about you know

645
00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:36,710
these kinds of a zero-point field and

646
00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:38,870
all of these different things to get

647
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:41,030
energy and the question I asked because

648
00:29:47,530 --> 00:29:42,850
one of them asked that very question

649
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:47,540
what are the sociological ramifications

650
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:52,340
of being successful and we make that a

651
00:29:56,980 --> 00:29:55,490
group project to decide what would be

652
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:56,990
the things one of the one of the thought

653
00:30:05,170 --> 00:29:59,840
experiments is suppose you do get good

654
00:30:06,910 --> 00:30:05,180
clean energy unlimited what walk down

655
00:30:10,210 --> 00:30:06,920
the street or drive down the street and

656
00:30:12,970 --> 00:30:10,220
say what would still be there and what

657
00:30:15,340 --> 00:30:12,980
would be gone and so that's a very good

658
00:30:19,330 --> 00:30:15,350
question what most of the things that

659
00:30:20,860 --> 00:30:19,340
they say is everybody's going to lose

660
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:20,870
their job and that's the thing that

661
00:30:25,210 --> 00:30:22,760
they're worried about course now they're

662
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:25,220
speaking from half of them not having a

663
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:27,530
job at the present time that's right

664
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:29,450
well that was a case with the origin

665
00:30:33,550 --> 00:30:31,550
carriage and disagree with you deal you

666
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,560
can look closer far all right Kim I'm

667
00:30:37,030 --> 00:30:35,120
sorry yeah it's a wee front through that

668
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:37,040
situation time and time again with the

669
00:30:40,780 --> 00:30:39,440
evolution of society just a hundred

670
00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:40,790
years ago the horse and carriage

671
00:30:45,730 --> 00:30:43,070
industry when essentially closed their

672
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:45,740
business one tenth of what it was at the

673
00:30:48,970 --> 00:30:47,120
introduction of the automobile yet

674
00:30:51,610 --> 00:30:48,980
history recounts no losers of people

675
00:30:53,020 --> 00:30:51,620
being left behind and how about say six

676
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:53,030
hundred years ago when I pane glass

677
00:30:57,130 --> 00:30:55,130
windows were invented and that the

678
00:31:00,550 --> 00:30:57,140
candle makers guild were put out of

679
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:00,560
business history recounts no losers

680
00:31:04,750 --> 00:31:02,210
there they just had to change their

681
00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:04,760
careers right and but you can

682
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:06,710
but you can see short-term problems

683
00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:08,720
certainly I mean if you were to let's

684
00:31:13,660 --> 00:31:11,960
say if a burn Ian and Garrett are

685
00:31:16,090 --> 00:31:13,670
successful and they can create let's say

686
00:31:18,010 --> 00:31:16,100
a handheld device that can put out five

687
00:31:19,810 --> 00:31:18,020
kilowatts of power or one of our devices

688
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:19,820
second our devices ken's or someone

689
00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:22,090
else's does the same you could basically

690
00:31:29,230 --> 00:31:25,870
unplug almost a commercial buildings and

691
00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:29,240
it houses all residential from the grid

692
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:30,830
you would you would do away with the oil

693
00:31:35,290 --> 00:31:33,290
and gas industry you would see the

694
00:31:37,090 --> 00:31:35,300
influence of the mideast disappeared

695
00:31:40,110 --> 00:31:37,100
those they would disappear back into the

696
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:40,120
sands on it would it would destabilize

697
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:42,080
geopolitically large parts of the world

698
00:31:46,830 --> 00:31:44,960
Russia would loses influence with with

699
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:46,840
its gas production over Western Europe

700
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:49,370
well how the holiday regain their

701
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:51,170
stature if they don't have an economical

702
00:31:54,970 --> 00:31:52,250
ever would they have with you become

703
00:31:57,700 --> 00:31:54,980
military there be all sorts of very

704
00:31:58,930 --> 00:31:57,710
profound changes at the same time you

705
00:32:00,910 --> 00:31:58,940
would he would you you could possibly

706
00:32:02,380 --> 00:32:00,920
lower if you had unlimited amounts of

707
00:32:04,750 --> 00:32:02,390
energy available to you you could start

708
00:32:06,970 --> 00:32:04,760
making co2 scrubbers bring the co2 back

709
00:32:11,410 --> 00:32:06,980
down 270 parts per million rather than

710
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:11,420
380 where it is now you could forestall

711
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:14,210
a global warming cool the oceans you do

712
00:32:18,430 --> 00:32:16,730
all sorts of things clean water you

713
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:18,440
would if you could purify water or

714
00:32:21,130 --> 00:32:20,090
simply condense it out of the air you

715
00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:21,140
would solve though you know an average

716
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:22,430
person in the world spends two or three

717
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:24,410
hours in poor countries looking for

718
00:32:28,150 --> 00:32:26,090
water every day you transform everything

719
00:32:29,020 --> 00:32:28,160
good and bad but certainly be disruptive

720
00:32:30,730 --> 00:32:29,030
and I can't think of anything more

721
00:32:33,070 --> 00:32:30,740
disruptive than changing the way energy

722
00:32:35,710 --> 00:32:33,080
is produced and once energy becomes free

723
00:32:37,540 --> 00:32:35,720
we can solve the water crises in many

724
00:32:39,730 --> 00:32:37,550
places the world and the food run albums

725
00:32:41,980 --> 00:32:39,740
to write energies behind everything

726
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:41,990
closer to shirt on your back well every

727
00:32:45,730 --> 00:32:43,670
every every spoonful of food you put

728
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:45,740
into your mouth has roughly 20 grams of

729
00:32:49,450 --> 00:32:47,210
petroleum behind it in terms of

730
00:32:50,770 --> 00:32:49,460
transportation costs fertilizer or

731
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,780
grilling costs and all that so you're

732
00:32:54,340 --> 00:32:52,640
putting 20 grams of oil into your mouth

733
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:54,350
every time you take a spoonful of food

734
00:33:01,540 --> 00:32:58,490
it's just it's tremendous places where

735
00:33:03,340 --> 00:33:01,550
the energy goes that's all right my name

736
00:33:06,060 --> 00:33:03,350
is John ran with open minds and open

737
00:33:09,330 --> 00:33:06,070
minds TV

738
00:33:11,670 --> 00:33:09,340
there's a couple of energy sources that

739
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:11,680
I wanted you to be aware of one of them

740
00:33:20,970 --> 00:33:15,910
was a patent by jaeger lecoultre they

741
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:20,980
invented an Atmos clock and an atlas

742
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:24,610
clock using a accordion type cylinder

743
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:27,730
which expanded and contracted with

744
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:31,120
temperature changes one of those little

745
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:34,830
cylinders the sight of the size of a

746
00:33:40,980 --> 00:33:38,770
teacup can actually lift a human being

747
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:40,990
just by changing the temperature with a

748
00:33:47,250 --> 00:33:44,770
little can of air spray that that was

749
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:47,260
called a perpetual clock and that

750
00:33:56,010 --> 00:33:50,740
technology exists the other one is using

751
00:34:00,420 --> 00:33:56,020
solar park xerox a year ago came out

752
00:34:03,690 --> 00:34:00,430
with a new type of a satellite it looked

753
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:03,700
like a second dish but it focused a beam

754
00:34:10,770 --> 00:34:08,290
to to a type of element which was 100

755
00:34:13,530 --> 00:34:10,780
times more efficient than anything that

756
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:13,540
we have in solar cells that patent was

757
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:17,200
sold for over 100 million dollars last

758
00:34:23,220 --> 00:34:20,320
year I couldn't get the the type of

759
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:23,230
material it used but that's uh that's

760
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:26,050
probably one of the interesting things

761
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:28,810
about the solar panel another one is the

762
00:34:35,550 --> 00:34:31,930
bloom box these boom boxes are appearing

763
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:35,560
in front of google and ebay and a

764
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:38,410
tremendous amount of energy output for a

765
00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:41,290
very small amount of resources going in

766
00:34:47,910 --> 00:34:43,950
almost working on almost any type of

767
00:34:49,860 --> 00:34:47,920
fuel are any of you aware of this yeah

768
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:49,870
all of those are free energy sources

769
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:51,520
though they all require free energy

770
00:34:54,660 --> 00:34:53,050
they're not going to store more

771
00:34:56,250 --> 00:34:54,670
efficient maybe but they're not the

772
00:34:59,160 --> 00:34:56,260
bloom back city is talking about is

773
00:35:01,140 --> 00:34:59,170
actually a very successful commercial

774
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:01,150
fuel cell but they're still there's

775
00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:02,710
still a fuel cell I know that's right

776
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:04,390
now so I think there's still some where

777
00:35:08,190 --> 00:35:06,160
around sixty percent efficiency and

778
00:35:10,450 --> 00:35:08,200
forty percent test to be discharged as

779
00:35:13,060 --> 00:35:10,460
heat into the environment I mean it

780
00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:13,070
comment2 about the solar concentrating

781
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:14,030
solar cause you no good whatsoever

782
00:35:18,430 --> 00:35:16,130
because you only have so much watts per

783
00:35:20,170 --> 00:35:18,440
square meter and that's that's it in

784
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:20,180
concentrate if you want to and they have

785
00:35:24,820 --> 00:35:22,510
some effect on the efficiency of the

786
00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:24,830
conversion but you're limited by the

787
00:35:28,030 --> 00:35:26,900
amount of the solar energy coming per

788
00:35:30,579 --> 00:35:28,040
square meter you can't do anything about

789
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:30,589
that move the earth closer to the Sun

790
00:35:35,589 --> 00:35:33,650
you by the way that clock they're

791
00:35:37,660 --> 00:35:35,599
talking about that operates with the

792
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:37,670
bellows is just simply it's a heat

793
00:35:42,010 --> 00:35:39,650
engine that operates over a day long

794
00:35:44,740 --> 00:35:42,020
cycle of absorbing heat and getting rid

795
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:44,750
of heat that concept of centuries-old

796
00:35:53,740 --> 00:35:48,530
actually um my name is John rhythm the

797
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:53,750
treasure of SSC comment and question is

798
00:35:59,200 --> 00:35:56,480
this we've been discussing a new energy

799
00:36:02,800 --> 00:35:59,210
sources and it's it seems like the focus

800
00:36:05,290 --> 00:36:02,810
has been on rather exotic and the

801
00:36:10,089 --> 00:36:05,300
sources such as the cpe Casimir effect

802
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:10,099
and others I'm wondering and if if you

803
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:15,609
could tell the audience if there's any

804
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:18,290
very revolutionary research being done

805
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:21,170
on fuels that can be used in

806
00:36:25,540 --> 00:36:23,570
conventional engines that already exist

807
00:36:28,690 --> 00:36:25,550
and are being used worldwide such as

808
00:36:32,020 --> 00:36:28,700
internal combustion engines and an

809
00:36:34,660 --> 00:36:32,030
especially fuels like the use of

810
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:34,670
hydrogen which the Germans were using in

811
00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:36,970
World War two when they didn't have

812
00:36:43,690 --> 00:36:40,070
petroleum sources of fuel to operate

813
00:36:46,380 --> 00:36:43,700
their combustion engine so it do you

814
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:46,390
have any research is being done on

815
00:36:55,950 --> 00:36:51,760
methods of hydrolysis of water or other

816
00:36:59,560 --> 00:36:55,960
such you know fairly freely available

817
00:37:02,170 --> 00:36:59,570
substances that we have so that the that

818
00:37:04,810 --> 00:37:02,180
it could produce essentially a free

819
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:04,820
source of energy by mate because the

820
00:37:10,060 --> 00:37:07,250
source of the fuel would be so cheap but

821
00:37:11,859 --> 00:37:10,070
could through hydrolysis have a source

822
00:37:13,810 --> 00:37:11,869
of hydrogen that could go into the

823
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:13,820
internal combustion engines and and

824
00:37:17,050 --> 00:37:15,200
operate

825
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:17,060
you know with conventional technology

826
00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:18,770
without some of the exotics that we've

827
00:37:25,180 --> 00:37:21,680
been discussing I just I think number of

828
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:25,190
us will give you responses one I like a

829
00:37:33,839 --> 00:37:28,910
lot is an air powered car something

830
00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:33,849
that's been worked on connect a french

831
00:37:42,190 --> 00:37:39,740
engineer for quite a long time and my

832
00:37:44,050 --> 00:37:42,200
thermodynamics class we actually started

833
00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:44,060
off the class by doing an analysis of

834
00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:47,540
his engine and see how much energy you

835
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:51,230
can get and it's very small but it's

836
00:37:59,530 --> 00:37:54,800
actually practical and he's now building

837
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:59,540
these in tanta the Indian today our car

838
00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:02,000
maker has contracted with in there

839
00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:04,070
apparently in production for these

840
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:06,470
air-powered cars they do think of have a

841
00:38:14,620 --> 00:38:12,560
fuel backup as well that's one minor you

842
00:38:16,839 --> 00:38:14,630
get a little bit more mileage afib used

843
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:16,849
a store liquid nitrogen on board as

844
00:38:20,859 --> 00:38:18,770
opposed to just compressed air because

845
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:20,869
then you can enlist thermal energy to

846
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:24,530
boil for the ln2 I would think it

847
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:26,000
puzzles me is why we don't make more use

848
00:38:29,740 --> 00:38:27,770
of the same technologies being used in

849
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:29,750
Brazil instead of using corn to make

850
00:38:34,510 --> 00:38:32,690
ethanol there's very not very very

851
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:34,520
efficient and clear but they're actually

852
00:38:37,390 --> 00:38:36,079
gaining anything by doing that why are

853
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:37,400
we not using sugar cane which is about

854
00:38:40,270 --> 00:38:38,450
competitive

855
00:38:46,089 --> 00:38:40,280
vision it's made Latrell pretty much

856
00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:46,099
energy okay then i would say that even

857
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,260
if you could find these fuels your

858
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:50,000
there's still free energy sources which

859
00:38:53,950 --> 00:38:51,440
have an efficiency associated with them

860
00:38:56,319 --> 00:38:53,960
which is thermodynamically mandated and

861
00:38:58,420 --> 00:38:56,329
so if you can improve your efficiency by

862
00:39:00,220 --> 00:38:58,430
ten percent fine then you drive an SUV

863
00:39:02,819 --> 00:39:00,230
which uses twenty percent more gas as a

864
00:39:05,170 --> 00:39:02,829
result in you're simply behind the curve

865
00:39:08,170 --> 00:39:05,180
even the way energy is being used right

866
00:39:12,130 --> 00:39:08,180
now and the demand for it there will not

867
00:39:14,109 --> 00:39:12,140
be enough by the conventional sources or

868
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:14,119
even the ones or anything like the

869
00:39:17,260 --> 00:39:15,770
conventional sources and if we use them

870
00:39:27,819 --> 00:39:17,270
as we are currently using will destroy

871
00:39:29,410 --> 00:39:27,829
the planet that's right 200 yes okay let

872
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:29,420
me out let me address that directly yeah

873
00:39:34,180 --> 00:39:32,060
if you tip if you want to break if you

874
00:39:35,650 --> 00:39:34,190
want to if you want to break water down

875
00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:35,660
into hydrogen and oxygen it requires

876
00:39:39,550 --> 00:39:37,430
energy to do so which means you have to

877
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:39,560
provide that electrical energy and that

878
00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:40,730
electrical energy would come from the

879
00:39:43,809 --> 00:39:42,230
burning of coal or gas or oil or

880
00:39:45,309 --> 00:39:43,819
something else and that in itself is

881
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,319
going to be inefficient and then you go

882
00:39:49,089 --> 00:39:47,599
through the extra step of breaking down

883
00:39:51,099 --> 00:39:49,099
the gas and you have to pressurize

884
00:39:52,180 --> 00:39:51,109
accrue it all of that in the end it

885
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:52,190
doesn't do you any good all does is

886
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:53,810
remove the pollution source from one

887
00:40:23,220 --> 00:39:55,760
place to another but but it doesn't get

888
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:26,280
okay sure if you if you if you use the

889
00:40:30,590 --> 00:40:28,510
catalyst interview to question the and

890
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:30,600
your if are there any are there any

891
00:40:34,770 --> 00:40:33,310
breakthroughs breakthroughs that can be

892
00:40:37,020 --> 00:40:34,780
used with conventional energy sources

893
00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:37,030
for instance electrolysis of water let's

894
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:39,550
say catalogs breakdown of it yes the

895
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:41,680
catalysts don't shift the equilibrium

896
00:40:45,450 --> 00:40:43,330
they don't they don't give you any extra

897
00:40:46,770 --> 00:40:45,460
or any free energy so you're still going

898
00:40:47,970 --> 00:40:46,780
to have to pay the energy costs of

899
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:47,980
breaking it down you might be able to do

900
00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:49,570
it more efficiently more quickly you can

901
00:40:52,260 --> 00:40:51,160
lower the activation energy for doing so

902
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:52,270
you're not going to change the actual

903
00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:54,250
energy costs in doing so so you're just

904
00:40:59,820 --> 00:40:57,730
adding to that you know there if you

905
00:41:02,460 --> 00:40:59,830
look online you'll find a number of

906
00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:02,470
water powered cars yes I was about to

907
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:04,780
say we need to address that i stand here

908
00:41:09,420 --> 00:41:07,450
saying that as rush i do took you you

909
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:09,430
can you can look at a person farming

910
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:12,250
table for water and just as daniel said

911
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,560
you know no matter how you get from here

912
00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:16,480
to there there's just a certain amount

913
00:41:22,650 --> 00:41:19,150
of energy involved in in the bonding

914
00:41:24,450 --> 00:41:22,660
process and we can't change that now it

915
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:24,460
may be possible that adding water

916
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:27,970
gasoline improves Oh yo stepped out

917
00:41:32,450 --> 00:41:29,920
religions that's been demonstrated him

918
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:32,460
statuses and that's been demonstrated

919
00:41:38,940 --> 00:41:36,400
but there are there let me tell you one

920
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:38,950
that actually does work and excuse me

921
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:41,530
Olga was in my class for quoting

922
00:41:46,140 --> 00:41:42,880
something else from the class that was

923
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:46,150
we were thinking what happens if you

924
00:41:52,490 --> 00:41:49,510
take water and you evaporate it that

925
00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:52,500
will cool that will give you

926
00:41:58,890 --> 00:41:54,910
cult which is the opposite of a female

927
00:42:00,990 --> 00:41:58,900
my guest yes and then you use that with

928
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:01,000
a Stirling engine or some some attention

929
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:03,370
and you use the cold that you jam it

930
00:42:07,410 --> 00:42:04,990
doesn't matter if you put heat in or

931
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:07,420
take it out it's still flow that's all

932
00:42:17,850 --> 00:42:11,650
right I just want to oh so let's say

933
00:42:20,670 --> 00:42:17,860
that you sew into it you make you make a

934
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:20,680
gradient so you've got cold and eat and

935
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:23,290
you use that to drive a Stirling engine

936
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:24,850
or something like that could you

937
00:42:29,790 --> 00:42:27,010
actually end up with a net energy game

938
00:42:31,980 --> 00:42:29,800
and the answer is yes you actually could

939
00:42:34,050 --> 00:42:31,990
build a motor that would work like this

940
00:42:35,790 --> 00:42:34,060
so then we did the calculation how much

941
00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:35,800
water would you need compared with

942
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:38,830
gasoline so if you had a car running

943
00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:40,720
around instead of having a gas tank you

944
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:41,830
at a water tank which you've evaporated

945
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:44,050
it turns out it's about a factor of 100

946
00:42:50,070 --> 00:42:47,650
more than you need for gasoline so it

947
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:50,080
really is not practical for a car engine

948
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:56,050
however for a boat I don't know hello

949
00:43:00,240 --> 00:42:58,170
it's left if I to follow up on that

950
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:00,250
exactly you're just saying first of all

951
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:02,710
I appreciate the comment by Dan about

952
00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:05,770
efficiency that just getting more energy

953
00:43:09,090 --> 00:43:07,630
isn't going to change our consumption of

954
00:43:11,910 --> 00:43:09,100
it we do also have to focus on being

955
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:11,920
efficient and using it well if we're

956
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:12,910
going to ever solve the underlying

957
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:16,810
problem but I just have this idea in and

958
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:18,460
I it's not my fluid extra peat expertise

959
00:43:24,140 --> 00:43:20,560
so maybe I'll sound stupid but it's a

960
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,150
good idea I don't when we burn gasoline

961
00:43:29,130 --> 00:43:26,560
it's a very primitive way of extracting

962
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:29,140
the energy from the gasoline not cool or

963
00:43:33,570 --> 00:43:30,730
burning wood or things like that is

964
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:33,580
other ways to perform the same chemical

965
00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:36,970
reactions in very efficient ways that

966
00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:38,830
are not called burning that sure you

967
00:43:41,850 --> 00:43:40,510
just make fuel cells for instance which

968
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:41,860
would be highly efficient you know sixty

969
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:44,290
eighty percent efficient I assume where

970
00:43:48,210 --> 00:43:46,210
you're you're not having to go through a

971
00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:48,220
work cycle in the same way yeah you can

972
00:43:53,970 --> 00:43:51,670
you could make ya a la hydrogen oxygen

973
00:43:55,740 --> 00:43:53,980
fuel cell is theoretically eighty-six

974
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:55,750
percent efficient yeah but I'm

975
00:44:00,780 --> 00:43:57,970
suggesting literally breaking down the

976
00:44:01,370 --> 00:44:00,790
same gasoline molecules so if you use

977
00:44:03,500 --> 00:44:01,380
the same few

978
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:03,510
and it doesn't produce a gaseous co2 and

979
00:44:08,210 --> 00:44:05,760
we can capture the carbon and because

980
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:08,220
it's some kind of digestive process well

981
00:44:11,570 --> 00:44:09,450
sure if you could find a way to capture

982
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:11,580
the carbon and as co2 sure that'd be

983
00:44:16,130 --> 00:44:14,250
great it's sequester it I assume that be

984
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:16,140
possible sure well it's a lesson has to

985
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,850
be gashes the real question is modeling

986
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:19,680
you know our energy sources off of the

987
00:44:22,460 --> 00:44:21,240
way we digest food in the way that you

988
00:44:24,620 --> 00:44:22,470
know those chemical reactions happen

989
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:24,630
rather than burning as a fundamental but

990
00:44:27,950 --> 00:44:25,920
I think fuel cell is probably one of the

991
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:27,960
best ways to go on up yes our muscles

992
00:44:32,990 --> 00:44:30,690
are actually about 80 our muscles are

993
00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:33,000
about thirty percent efficient and

994
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:36,300
conversion of hydrocarbons into muscle

995
00:44:41,630 --> 00:44:39,330
work and yet that's done with much lower

996
00:44:43,460 --> 00:44:41,640
temperatures than an engine but it's a

997
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,470
whole different process of tapping that

998
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:45,440
energy to Gibbs free energy

999
00:44:57,260 --> 00:44:48,330
transformation as opposed to a thermal

1000
00:45:06,110 --> 00:44:57,270
one combined it it's it's a battery with

1001
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:06,120
potentially unlimited reactants yeah

1002
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:07,710
there are many different types although

1003
00:45:11,180 --> 00:45:09,570
the hydrogen oxygen when is the cleanest

1004
00:45:13,580 --> 00:45:11,190
and the least susceptible to following

1005
00:45:16,850 --> 00:45:13,590
we still haven't solved the problem with

1006
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:16,860
that dirty carbon-carbon bond place like

1007
00:45:20,300 --> 00:45:18,240
Iceland we have lots of geothermal

1008
00:45:21,620 --> 00:45:20,310
energy you can use that to bring the

1009
00:45:23,810 --> 00:45:21,630
part of the water and hydrogen oxygen

1010
00:45:25,490 --> 00:45:23,820
many values that to run your car's fuel

1011
00:45:26,750 --> 00:45:25,500
cell but you're actually then running

1012
00:45:28,059 --> 00:45:26,760
things off with the diff there whenever

1013
00:45:31,780 --> 00:45:28,069
you coming from

1014
00:45:39,220 --> 00:45:34,240
it sounds like it's time for me to go to

1015
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:39,230
war on two fronts first Garrett recently

1016
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:41,210
over the last five years like I worked

1017
00:45:45,730 --> 00:45:43,760
with a man that built air powered cars

1018
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:45,740
you want to take a guess what a standard

1019
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:49,910
high pressure gas tank the stand-up tank

1020
00:45:58,270 --> 00:45:54,530
with a screw off top with air at 3,000

1021
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,280
psi what the energy storage value of

1022
00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:01,040
that is the calculations it's very

1023
00:46:05,710 --> 00:46:02,990
little that's one works roughly one

1024
00:46:09,070 --> 00:46:05,720
horsepower ality it's a much lower

1025
00:46:13,060 --> 00:46:09,080
density far lowered as a fuel source

1026
00:46:16,420 --> 00:46:13,070
than gasoline I guess this French

1027
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:16,430
compressed air vehicle I've watched that

1028
00:46:24,430 --> 00:46:19,730
thing for like five years when you load

1029
00:46:26,050 --> 00:46:24,440
that thing up with 4500 PSI air you

1030
00:46:29,500 --> 00:46:26,060
increase the weight of the vehicle by

1031
00:46:32,590 --> 00:46:29,510
about 750 pounds and if one of those

1032
00:46:34,930 --> 00:46:32,600
tanks ruptures you either have the

1033
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:34,940
world's most colossal rocket in center

1034
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:38,930
city or one loud ass explosion yeah okay

1035
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:42,050
that's what if it's hard it's hard to be

1036
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:43,520
gasoline I mean when you look at the

1037
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:45,050
actual chemical energy and gasoline is

1038
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:46,370
higher when it's burned than high

1039
00:46:49,930 --> 00:46:48,170
explosives literally when you're feeling

1040
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:49,940
your car up with gasoline you might as

1041
00:46:53,620 --> 00:46:51,440
well be filling it up with with the

1042
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:53,630
plastique and you're just blowing your

1043
00:46:56,020 --> 00:46:54,770
way down the highway in a series of

1044
00:46:59,110 --> 00:46:56,030
explosions that's tremendously

1045
00:47:01,900 --> 00:46:59,120
energy-intensive right great admiration

1046
00:47:07,060 --> 00:47:01,910
respect for gasoline yeah I always start

1047
00:47:08,890 --> 00:47:07,070
fires with kerosene I Daniel I want to

1048
00:47:13,740 --> 00:47:08,900
take it one in two subjects number one

1049
00:47:16,990 --> 00:47:13,750
co2 is not a pollutant it's plain food

1050
00:47:18,970 --> 00:47:17,000
it's plant food without which pollutant

1051
00:47:23,650 --> 00:47:18,980
is a resource that is out of place that

1052
00:47:26,770 --> 00:47:23,660
includes quantity well look what the

1053
00:47:30,130 --> 00:47:26,780
quantity is very debatable because

1054
00:47:33,340 --> 00:47:30,140
apparently the the greenhouse effect

1055
00:47:36,550 --> 00:47:33,350
falls off with increased concentration

1056
00:47:38,290 --> 00:47:36,560
and Jay and water vapor is farmers yeah

1057
00:47:39,820 --> 00:47:38,300
well you might take it up at EPA I think

1058
00:47:43,630 --> 00:47:39,830
they listed it as a

1059
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:43,640
the alone okay number two number

1060
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:47,570
two ok how many coal-fired plants and

1061
00:47:54,820 --> 00:47:51,280
SUVs weather in the year one thousand

1062
00:47:56,260 --> 00:47:54,830
coal-burning plants yeah it's not the

1063
00:47:59,280 --> 00:47:56,270
number of plants is the amount of DC

1064
00:48:01,930 --> 00:47:59,290
medicated wats the 2001 years ago a

1065
00:48:05,590 --> 00:48:01,940
thousand years ago how many coal-fired

1066
00:48:07,810 --> 00:48:05,600
energy producing plants and SUVs were on

1067
00:48:09,220 --> 00:48:07,820
the earth there are any SUVs but I bet

1068
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:09,230
that if you think colberine you talk

1069
00:48:15,250 --> 00:48:11,770
about people's hearts I suppose okay but

1070
00:48:18,850 --> 00:48:15,260
producing the vast amount of energy we

1071
00:48:22,270 --> 00:48:18,860
have today probably 12 11 percent or

1072
00:48:24,190 --> 00:48:22,280
less it's that yeah if that I steam

1073
00:48:26,830 --> 00:48:24,200
engines and gas turbines didn't exist

1074
00:48:30,340 --> 00:48:26,840
then good thing yeah okay did you ever

1075
00:48:33,010 --> 00:48:30,350
hear the little ice age yeah it drove

1076
00:48:35,020 --> 00:48:33,020
the Vikings off of Greenland because

1077
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:35,030
Greenland a thousand years ago was a

1078
00:48:40,510 --> 00:48:38,480
beautiful green place right and the

1079
00:48:43,690 --> 00:48:40,520
Little Ice Age drove away because it

1080
00:48:45,970 --> 00:48:43,700
froze over the land right in co2 wasn't

1081
00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:45,980
problem back then yeah well I mean the

1082
00:48:50,050 --> 00:48:47,990
issue of global warming in the and the

1083
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:50,060
role of co2 is has had there's a

1084
00:48:53,140 --> 00:48:51,170
consensus in the scientific community

1085
00:48:55,660 --> 00:48:53,150
that it that it should have and does

1086
00:48:57,310 --> 00:48:55,670
have an effect and the this forum is not

1087
00:48:59,230 --> 00:48:57,320
about the controversy there I know

1088
00:49:00,610 --> 00:48:59,240
they're there to size of this argument I

1089
00:49:03,250 --> 00:49:00,620
have colleagues who are on both on both

1090
00:49:05,020 --> 00:49:03,260
sides as well but based on pure

1091
00:49:07,330 --> 00:49:05,030
thermodynamics and radiative heat

1092
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:07,340
transfer it's almost impossible for co2

1093
00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:08,480
not to have an effect on the environment

1094
00:49:14,650 --> 00:49:11,230
of the concentrations that is rising two

1095
00:49:17,770 --> 00:49:14,660
okay I can't sit here and without

1096
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:17,780
speaking about hydrogen how many of you

1097
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:21,490
in here have fought a hydrogen fire

1098
00:49:27,970 --> 00:49:25,010
nobody but I have when hydrogen burns

1099
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:27,980
there is no flame that you can see and

1100
00:49:33,490 --> 00:49:30,530
in the hydrogen partner that I thought I

1101
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:33,500
had to walk up to a valve and put my

1102
00:49:38,890 --> 00:49:35,930
hand across it and got burned to see if

1103
00:49:40,810 --> 00:49:38,900
there was a fire to put out hydrogen is

1104
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:40,820
one of the most flammable materials

1105
00:49:47,230 --> 00:49:43,370
there is in nature is flammability

1106
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:47,240
limits in air are 42 seventy-four

1107
00:49:54,010 --> 00:49:50,240
percent so almost any mixture that you

1108
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:54,020
have of hydrogen in air is a bomb and I

1109
00:50:00,880 --> 00:49:57,650
don't want that in my garage secondly

1110
00:50:04,750 --> 00:50:00,890
the weather it always always talked to

1111
00:50:07,570 --> 00:50:04,760
already talked about that its energy

1112
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:07,580
wise it's not a good idea because it

1113
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:10,250
always takes more energy to get the

1114
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:13,520
hydrogen out then it then you get out of

1115
00:50:17,710 --> 00:50:15,920
it and that you're that all you're only

1116
00:50:21,370 --> 00:50:17,720
going to get a fraction of that energy

1117
00:50:23,350 --> 00:50:21,380
patch right engines and i'm in favor of

1118
00:50:25,150 --> 00:50:23,360
no more burning of anything because

1119
00:50:27,820 --> 00:50:25,160
there are plenty of opportunities to be

1120
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:27,830
developed and be applied right now today

1121
00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:31,850
and so the hydrogen is is it's just so

1122
00:50:37,540 --> 00:50:35,060
dangerous if there's any other way that

1123
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:37,550
we can get our energy we don't want to I

1124
00:50:41,710 --> 00:50:39,530
can tell you because I thought hydrogen

1125
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:41,720
fires I know what it's like I've been

1126
00:50:46,990 --> 00:50:45,170
there and we don't want to do that so

1127
00:50:49,870 --> 00:50:47,000
I'm disappointed in you two guys I was

1128
00:50:57,720 --> 00:50:49,880
expecting you to say that why are we

1129
00:51:06,190 --> 00:51:02,620
I'd like to speak to can go and I'm a

1130
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:06,200
little nervous folks please forgive me I

1131
00:51:11,710 --> 00:51:09,410
think I think actually everyone is

1132
00:51:14,700 --> 00:51:11,720
missing one real important source of

1133
00:51:19,690 --> 00:51:14,710
energy and that is the human body and

1134
00:51:21,550 --> 00:51:19,700
when you were speaking Ken I'm guided by

1135
00:51:23,410 --> 00:51:21,560
many spirits who work through my

1136
00:51:27,220 --> 00:51:23,420
physical body some of you have lit heard

1137
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:27,230
them and what I don't usually see things

1138
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,050
though but so this was very unusual so I

1139
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:32,240
know it was important when you were

1140
00:51:41,650 --> 00:51:36,290
speaking they showed me these two lines

1141
00:51:43,870 --> 00:51:41,660
of zigzag psychedelic lines up here that

1142
00:51:45,070 --> 00:51:43,880
kept distracting me from looking I

1143
00:51:48,330 --> 00:51:45,080
couldn't even look at you for the

1144
00:51:51,370 --> 00:51:48,340
distraction there was a third line also

1145
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:51,380
it was not exactly with the other two

1146
00:51:55,059 --> 00:51:54,530
and they were kind of they what they

1147
00:51:59,439 --> 00:51:55,069
made me

1148
00:52:02,019 --> 00:51:59,449
enka was a synapse of our brain one

1149
00:52:06,489 --> 00:52:02,029
nerve ending reaching another nerve

1150
00:52:10,689 --> 00:52:06,499
ending and you kind of downplayed bills

1151
00:52:13,569 --> 00:52:10,699
a comment about intention but i think my

1152
00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:13,579
guides want you to you especially to

1153
00:52:19,630 --> 00:52:16,209
think about the possibility of using

1154
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:19,640
intention along with what you have

1155
00:52:27,759 --> 00:52:24,559
developed that the human brain can help

1156
00:52:29,529 --> 00:52:27,769
it yes very definitely and we are still

1157
00:52:31,539 --> 00:52:29,539
living on the same planet with the same

1158
00:52:33,729 --> 00:52:31,549
physical resources as over a hundred

1159
00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:33,739
years ago with one-tenth population

1160
00:52:38,709 --> 00:52:36,440
which back then only about 1% of the

1161
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:38,719
population was well off and what is it

1162
00:52:42,819 --> 00:52:41,359
now today about ten percent people live

1163
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:42,829
are well off that's a hundred times

1164
00:52:47,799 --> 00:52:45,920
increase in the ability to live decently

1165
00:52:49,479 --> 00:52:47,809
on this planet but it's the same planet

1166
00:52:51,370 --> 00:52:49,489
with the same resources and ten times

1167
00:52:53,229 --> 00:52:51,380
the number of people what happened it's

1168
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:53,239
our ability to live with our environment

1169
00:52:57,699 --> 00:52:55,609
in each other and that's part of what

1170
00:52:59,380 --> 00:52:57,709
you're saying there is that a tremendous

1171
00:53:02,199 --> 00:52:59,390
resource to make this energy work as

1172
00:53:03,670 --> 00:53:02,209
just our own our own social skills that

1173
00:53:08,289 --> 00:53:03,680
can have lots of room for improvement

1174
00:53:10,209 --> 00:53:08,299
yet I i guess my own personal opinion

1175
00:53:13,630 --> 00:53:10,219
after listening to all this well before

1176
00:53:14,949 --> 00:53:13,640
that also is zero-point energy is

1177
00:53:17,079 --> 00:53:14,959
probably the one that's going to be the

1178
00:53:20,729 --> 00:53:17,089
answer to all of the requirements that

1179
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:20,739
we have so my question is how much

1180
00:53:26,739 --> 00:53:24,319
research is being done and how much is

1181
00:53:29,799 --> 00:53:26,749
required to bring zero-point energy

1182
00:53:34,989 --> 00:53:29,809
online you know it's some whenever that

1183
00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:34,999
might happen and if you let me put it

1184
00:53:42,130 --> 00:53:37,609
this way if you had all the money that

1185
00:53:44,469 --> 00:53:42,140
you could spend how fast could you think

1186
00:53:49,479 --> 00:53:44,479
that we could get the necessary research

1187
00:53:51,219 --> 00:53:49,489
done to utilize zero-point energy limit

1188
00:53:52,180 --> 00:53:51,229
or in comment notice that there are lots

1189
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:52,190
and lots of rumors

1190
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:54,050
around on the internet about devices

1191
00:53:57,700 --> 00:53:55,760
that already exists that have zero point

1192
00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:57,710
energy etc etc I don't leave a word of

1193
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,319
that sit tight yes for years and years I

1194
00:54:04,329 --> 00:54:02,240
think all those things are strictly hoax

1195
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:04,339
and hoaxes and cons and I don't think is

1196
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:05,510
needed by sitting out there the shelf

1197
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:07,310
somewhere in this being withheld from us

1198
00:54:10,300 --> 00:54:09,050
by the virtue of the greedy all

1199
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:10,310
companies or in the government or

1200
00:54:16,089 --> 00:54:13,730
whatever in terms of what it would take

1201
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:16,099
to demonstrate a zero-point energy can

1202
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:19,310
be a viable source it's really not that

1203
00:54:23,950 --> 00:54:21,170
much amount of money we're looking

1204
00:54:24,970 --> 00:54:23,960
forward to pursue our patent to carry on

1205
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:24,980
service here at the University of

1206
00:54:28,990 --> 00:54:26,450
Colorado by the way from the laboratory

1207
00:54:31,569 --> 00:54:29,000
is it's on the order of maybe 10 or 20

1208
00:54:32,650 --> 00:54:31,579
million dollars as we're looking for and

1209
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:32,660
I think with that amount of money we

1210
00:54:37,540 --> 00:54:35,599
probably pretty definitively either show

1211
00:54:39,900 --> 00:54:37,550
that the effect that we require to make

1212
00:54:43,839 --> 00:54:39,910
this work is real or that is a dead end

1213
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:43,849
you don't have to say that's absolutely

1214
00:54:49,950 --> 00:54:45,730
nuts

1215
00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:49,960
hot fusion it's his murder how many

1216
00:54:54,420 --> 00:54:51,990
billions of dollars it's more of a

1217
00:54:56,460 --> 00:54:54,430
people problem than is a technology

1218
00:54:59,760 --> 00:54:56,470
problem here's a humorous rule of thumb

1219
00:55:03,720 --> 00:54:59,770
for these sorts of frontier developments

1220
00:55:05,250 --> 00:55:03,730
that a fellow researcher that I know in

1221
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:05,260
the field brought this up says the

1222
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:06,730
effort that it takes to get these sort

1223
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:09,280
of projects to a practical level ten

1224
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:12,310
percent of the energy of the effort is

1225
00:55:16,290 --> 00:55:14,650
the technology itself twenty percent of

1226
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:16,300
the effort is overcoming suppression

1227
00:55:20,670 --> 00:55:18,730
interference thirty percent of the

1228
00:55:22,410 --> 00:55:20,680
effort is finding adequate funding in

1229
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:22,420
the remaining forty percent is just

1230
00:55:28,410 --> 00:55:24,490
interpersonal politics getting people to

1231
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:28,420
cooperate terms are the words of

1232
00:55:32,210 --> 00:55:30,250
freshmen I don't have any sense of any

1233
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:32,220
suppression taking place it's simply

1234
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:35,710
skepticism and subscriptions yep the

1235
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:38,490
only suppression I know of his just

1236
00:55:42,690 --> 00:55:40,930
maneuvering within industry of somebody

1237
00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:42,700
not wanting competition from somebody

1238
00:55:49,710 --> 00:55:47,440
else there's no indication actually knew

1239
00:55:52,410 --> 00:55:49,720
that is simply ignorance and Prejudice

1240
00:55:57,599 --> 00:55:52,420
because something is new and that their

1241
00:56:00,270 --> 00:55:57,609
children work well well well well

1242
00:56:02,670 --> 00:56:00,280
blabber thank ya thank thank you thank

1243
00:56:04,980 --> 00:56:02,680
you moderator I want to follow up on

1244
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:04,990
that lady's suggestion about the body

1245
00:56:08,490 --> 00:56:06,640
what came to me and she was saying it

1246
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:08,500
it's just in a flash never thought of

1247
00:56:14,849 --> 00:56:12,880
this before but uh spoon pending right

1248
00:56:16,980 --> 00:56:14,859
this takes this is something that the

1249
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:16,990
body presumably is doing in some way and

1250
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:19,119
it takes incredible and it has anybody

1251
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:21,010
done a calculation of the energy that it

1252
00:56:25,290 --> 00:56:23,410
takes to bend the spoon has anybody done

1253
00:56:26,970 --> 00:56:25,300
any measurements on transfers of

1254
00:56:29,730 --> 00:56:26,980
energies from the body to the spoon

1255
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:29,740
during these spoon bending parties it

1256
00:56:33,330 --> 00:56:31,690
wouldn't be very much I mean the amount

1257
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:33,340
of energy if you can if you can take a

1258
00:56:37,890 --> 00:56:35,890
spoon and bend it with pretty advice and

1259
00:56:40,590 --> 00:56:37,900
putting on let's say 50 pounds of force

1260
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:40,600
or something like that to bend it okay

1261
00:56:44,130 --> 00:56:42,130
800 pounds but it but if you move if you

1262
00:56:46,410 --> 00:56:44,140
move that through a small angle you know

1263
00:56:47,609 --> 00:56:46,420
integral of torque times the angle gives

1264
00:56:51,350 --> 00:56:47,619
you the work the work could just be in

1265
00:56:54,170 --> 00:56:51,360
the order of jewels yes also just

1266
00:56:57,210 --> 00:56:54,180
it's interesting on a number of fronts

1267
00:56:58,410 --> 00:56:57,220
so according to Jack Howell what he was

1268
00:57:00,420 --> 00:56:58,420
talking about this morning is is you

1269
00:57:02,580 --> 00:57:00,430
sort of essentially greased the grain

1270
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:02,590
boundaries of the metal which allows the

1271
00:57:07,410 --> 00:57:05,170
the spoon to bend and so there's very

1272
00:57:08,970 --> 00:57:07,420
very little energy involved you're not

1273
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:08,980
actually bending the spoon in its

1274
00:57:15,780 --> 00:57:13,270
conventional state however to support

1275
00:57:18,090 --> 00:57:15,790
what you're saying you know one of my

1276
00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:18,100
students is working on on on low energy

1277
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:20,110
nuclear reaction and one of the big

1278
00:57:25,860 --> 00:57:22,570
problems with this is sometimes it

1279
00:57:28,350 --> 00:57:25,870
appears sometimes it doesn't and it just

1280
00:57:31,260 --> 00:57:28,360
fits perfectly into the paradigm of is

1281
00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:31,270
it an intention based phenomenon you

1282
00:57:35,250 --> 00:57:33,040
know I have no evidence that it is I

1283
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:35,260
cannot say it is but it's certainly an

1284
00:57:41,850 --> 00:57:40,450
interesting question NASA worked on an

1285
00:57:43,980 --> 00:57:41,860
experiment a while back through the

1286
00:57:46,740 --> 00:57:43,990
Space Shuttle that involved a long

1287
00:57:49,620 --> 00:57:46,750
lanyard conductor stretched way out in

1288
00:57:51,450 --> 00:57:49,630
space that produced quite a bit of

1289
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:51,460
electricity in fact I think it exceeded

1290
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:53,290
their wildest dreams so much so that it

1291
00:57:57,450 --> 00:57:54,640
conducted current and I think it broke

1292
00:57:59,580 --> 00:57:57,460
the cable there's new materials being

1293
00:58:04,020 --> 00:57:59,590
generated now talk of a space elevator

1294
00:58:07,050 --> 00:58:04,030
carbon fiber tubules and so on the earth

1295
00:58:08,910 --> 00:58:07,060
turning through a magnetic field with

1296
00:58:11,100 --> 00:58:08,920
the conductor generates lots of

1297
00:58:13,830 --> 00:58:11,110
electricity is that not cannot beat not

1298
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:13,840
be scaled up to be something practical

1299
00:58:17,970 --> 00:58:16,330
yes we can but we don't know what the

1300
00:58:19,740 --> 00:58:17,980
side effects are from disturbing the

1301
00:58:23,070 --> 00:58:19,750
ionosphere by tapping that much

1302
00:58:24,900 --> 00:58:23,080
electricity out of it we don't know that

1303
00:58:26,670 --> 00:58:24,910
the side effects it's already put a

1304
00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:26,680
damper on it but I'm just cautious of

1305
00:58:36,450 --> 00:58:29,110
where is this energy coming from and

1306
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:36,460
what's it doing oh yes tapping lightning

1307
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:38,650
is a very dangerous thing it's how do

1308
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:43,450
you limit it it's getting a tiger by the

1309
00:58:46,530 --> 00:58:45,280
tail for sure well well the world is

1310
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:46,540
full of energy if you look at the amount

1311
00:58:51,450 --> 00:58:48,910
of solar radiation pinching on the

1312
00:58:53,730 --> 00:58:51,460
planet continuously it's enough to power

1313
00:58:55,230 --> 00:58:53,740
civilization a thousand times over but

1314
00:58:58,020 --> 00:58:55,240
it's not high grade energy when it's

1315
00:58:59,790 --> 00:58:58,030
just blowing in as low breezes or in

1316
00:59:02,190 --> 00:58:59,800
and mildly warm water on the surface of

1317
00:59:03,570 --> 00:59:02,200
the ocean it's it's low grade and you

1318
00:59:05,610 --> 00:59:03,580
have to have apparatus to extract it

1319
00:59:07,380 --> 00:59:05,620
from so it's not a question of whether

1320
00:59:09,810 --> 00:59:07,390
they're free energy sources it also is a

1321
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:09,820
matter of of conversion the apparatus

1322
00:59:13,590 --> 00:59:12,610
necessary for that transport storage all

1323
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:13,600
of these things all that infrastructure

1324
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:16,720
and so you can't simply just talk about

1325
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:18,610
where the energy is it's a question of

1326
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:21,250
is it is that ubiquitous is a portables

1327
00:59:24,870 --> 00:59:23,050
at high energy density is a cheap is it

1328
00:59:28,020 --> 00:59:24,880
green all of these things become are

1329
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:28,030
important here and and what what would

1330
00:59:32,460 --> 00:59:30,130
Garrett and Bernie are proposing and

1331
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:32,470
Kenner are possibilities where these

1332
00:59:35,370 --> 00:59:33,730
things would be in principle could be

1333
00:59:37,140 --> 00:59:35,380
portable devices the size of this bottle

1334
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:37,150
and something this size would would be

1335
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:38,410
at the center of your household running

1336
00:59:43,020 --> 00:59:41,770
it ad infinitum that would that's the

1337
00:59:44,610 --> 00:59:43,030
kind of radical change we're talking

1338
00:59:46,950 --> 00:59:44,620
about get rid of the infrastructure you

1339
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:46,960
know you could scrap the the electrical

1340
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:48,730
grids in the United States put away all

1341
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:50,650
the all the power plants bury them very

1342
00:59:55,770 --> 00:59:53,290
the nuclear power plants it would you

1343
00:59:58,140 --> 00:59:55,780
get rid of all the oil tankers no more

1344
00:59:59,610 --> 00:59:58,150
railroads from coal mines shut down the

1345
01:00:01,500 --> 00:59:59,620
coal mines shut down the oil fields

1346
01:00:03,300 --> 01:00:01,510
everything all this stuff would change

1347
01:00:04,620 --> 01:00:03,310
it would be a radical change and what

1348
01:00:06,450 --> 01:00:04,630
I'm really interested in is hearing your

1349
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:06,460
ideas about how radical this would be

1350
01:00:12,810 --> 01:00:08,110
and whether it would actually be a good

1351
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:12,820
thing my argument it basically is this

1352
01:00:17,010 --> 01:00:14,890
now in the paper that in the jse

1353
01:00:18,750 --> 01:00:17,020
ultimately I think it is a bad thing and

1354
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:18,760
reason is is because if you have

1355
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:20,530
unlimited energy that will allow you to

1356
01:00:24,690 --> 01:00:22,570
pillage the planet that much more

1357
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:24,700
quickly you could you could make you can

1358
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:26,410
make fishing trawlers which never have

1359
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:27,730
to come into port until they were full

1360
01:00:32,220 --> 01:00:30,130
you could you could build undoing

1361
01:00:33,420 --> 01:00:32,230
machines to cut down entire swathes the

1362
01:00:35,340 --> 01:00:33,430
forest without ever having to repower

1363
01:00:37,740 --> 01:00:35,350
them you could build engines of war that

1364
01:00:40,020 --> 01:00:37,750
never needed to be refueled no no fewer

1365
01:00:41,910 --> 01:00:40,030
lines having to go out I'm your creative

1366
01:00:44,250 --> 01:00:41,920
anti-gravity for precisely that reason

1367
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,260
well you could you could go on mining

1368
01:00:48,510 --> 01:00:46,240
for as much as you want all the oars so

1369
01:00:51,060 --> 01:00:48,520
I mean ultimately it's a matter of our

1370
01:00:52,350 --> 01:00:51,070
human nature if we had unlimited amounts

1371
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:52,360
of energy what would we do with it I'm

1372
01:01:01,320 --> 01:00:53,920
not sure it would necessarily be a good

1373
01:01:02,580 --> 01:01:01,330
thing that's quite interesting I I was

1374
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:02,590
kind of comment on something a little

1375
01:01:08,340 --> 01:01:06,250
earlier about how well uh how well off

1376
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:08,350
we are and I agree that we are better

1377
01:01:13,740 --> 01:01:09,850
off now than

1378
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:13,750
we have been for centuries but I I see

1379
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:16,330
that we're not necessarily going to

1380
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:18,490
continue this way right now we're kind

1381
01:01:26,820 --> 01:01:22,330
of reaching a point where my kids are

1382
01:01:29,370 --> 01:01:26,830
projected to live less years than I am

1383
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:29,380
you know we've just kind of Crested now

1384
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:31,890
or stresses up this for sure yeah and

1385
01:01:36,810 --> 01:01:34,090
facility to destroy ourselves has

1386
01:01:38,010 --> 01:01:36,820
accelerated tremendously absolutely

1387
01:01:39,630 --> 01:01:38,020
we've had the ability to destroy

1388
01:01:41,790 --> 01:01:39,640
ourselves for quite some time now and

1389
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:41,800
it's fortunate we didn't do that in the

1390
01:01:47,940 --> 01:01:46,810
80s with the Russians and all but and is

1391
01:01:50,970 --> 01:01:47,950
it do you think it's better that we're

1392
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:50,980
limited by the the dearth of natural

1393
01:01:55,770 --> 01:01:53,110
resources well I think the

1394
01:01:58,950 --> 01:01:55,780
infrastructure that's that's in power

1395
01:02:05,670 --> 01:01:58,960
now would definitely be opposed to any

1396
01:02:09,300 --> 01:02:05,680
type of free energy if if the nation's

1397
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:09,310
the west wall to do nations had free

1398
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:13,440
energy and they weren't dependent on us

1399
01:02:18,780 --> 01:02:16,090
that would really shift about the

1400
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:18,790
balance of power considerably yes mom

1401
01:02:25,950 --> 01:02:21,370
and I agree with your concerns about it

1402
01:02:29,850 --> 01:02:25,960
being abused and and the power

1403
01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:29,860
infrastructure you know oil I mean these

1404
01:02:36,060 --> 01:02:33,910
are big players in our economy imagine

1405
01:02:37,590 --> 01:02:36,070
what what would happen to our finances

1406
01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:37,600
if all of a sudden we didn't have to pay

1407
01:02:42,540 --> 01:02:40,960
for the power bill well it's not just

1408
01:02:44,970 --> 01:02:42,550
the power bills everything you every

1409
01:02:48,570 --> 01:02:44,980
single product you own has has energy

1410
01:02:52,260 --> 01:02:48,580
costs behind it right I mean China could

1411
01:02:54,930 --> 01:02:52,270
produce just tons of stuff you know even

1412
01:02:57,840 --> 01:02:54,940
more cheaply if they didn't have the

1413
01:02:59,490 --> 01:02:57,850
energy requirements so how many of you

1414
01:03:01,020 --> 01:02:59,500
think that we shouldn't actually we

1415
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:01,030
should not actually develop a free

1416
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:23,140
resources but we know that some

1417
01:03:28,510 --> 01:03:24,890
societies choose now to invent certain

1418
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:28,520
things society doesn't just follow this

1419
01:03:32,890 --> 01:03:30,130
course and it's not necessarily

1420
01:03:36,580 --> 01:03:32,900
predetermined based on what is best and

1421
01:03:37,870 --> 01:03:36,590
what is most powerful um somebody said

1422
01:03:39,580 --> 01:03:37,880
that well maybe that there are

1423
01:03:41,340 --> 01:03:39,590
mechanisms like all industries I would

1424
01:03:43,630 --> 01:03:41,350
you know hole will hold us down from

1425
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:43,640
developing something like this and maybe

1426
01:03:50,020 --> 01:03:47,410
that's not realistic maybe it is but

1427
01:03:52,180 --> 01:03:50,030
maybe there are just mechanisms built

1428
01:03:55,660 --> 01:03:52,190
into any system that forms societies

1429
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:55,670
that prevent it from developing mostly

1430
01:04:00,040 --> 01:03:57,530
powerful technologies i can destroy it

1431
01:04:01,750 --> 01:04:00,050
like biotechnology if it becomes

1432
01:04:04,210 --> 01:04:01,760
ubiquitous then you can have hackers

1433
01:04:06,310 --> 01:04:04,220
that would make viruses that could kill

1434
01:04:07,900 --> 01:04:06,320
everybody right so maybe there's a

1435
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:07,910
similar I don't know if that's realistic

1436
01:04:14,410 --> 01:04:12,490
or not but yes I've got one over here

1437
01:04:15,790 --> 01:04:14,420
maybe we'll put up maybe we'll put the

1438
01:04:24,849 --> 01:04:15,800
microphone on the stand let people line

1439
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:24,859
up sounds good and that look up doll me

1440
01:04:33,700 --> 01:04:29,510
extraneous comments I've heard a lot of

1441
01:04:35,500 --> 01:04:33,710
talk about the cost of energy and I just

1442
01:04:37,660 --> 01:04:35,510
want to remind everybody that money is

1443
01:04:39,700 --> 01:04:37,670
fake we invented the financial system

1444
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:39,710
the monetary system will live in is a

1445
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:42,650
construct that regulates our environment

1446
01:04:47,140 --> 01:04:45,050
that we currently reside in um another

1447
01:04:48,940 --> 01:04:47,150
interesting thing that i think i should

1448
01:04:52,180 --> 01:04:48,950
mention is known as talked about Nikola

1449
01:04:54,849 --> 01:04:52,190
Tesla at all and Wardenclyffe tower and

1450
01:04:57,070 --> 01:04:54,859
tapping Liana's you inherited it so we

1451
01:04:58,960 --> 01:04:57,080
can get there so I couldn't learn yet

1452
01:05:00,820 --> 01:04:58,970
guys his thoughts on Nikola Tesla and

1453
01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:00,830
his technology the fact that the

1454
01:05:04,750 --> 01:05:02,480
monetary system brought his technology

1455
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:04,760
to a halt because they couldn't put a

1456
01:05:10,660 --> 01:05:07,970
meter on money that would own energy

1457
01:05:13,930 --> 01:05:10,670
that was free so really the question is

1458
01:05:15,580 --> 01:05:13,940
immune are we going to idea over the

1459
01:05:17,260 --> 01:05:15,590
cost of doing this or we're going to go

1460
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,270
extinct because free energy is

1461
01:05:21,550 --> 01:05:19,760
inevitable if we don't extent the world

1462
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:21,560
is going to work perfectly the Sun is

1463
01:05:25,690 --> 01:05:23,450
going to function perfectly that's 4G

1464
01:05:28,750 --> 01:05:25,700
part of the Tesla mystique is also

1465
01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:28,760
steeped in the wannabe hype that's so

1466
01:05:31,730 --> 01:05:29,940
prevalent on the inner

1467
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:31,740
but there is some truth behind that

1468
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:35,250
we're still sorting out what that genius

1469
01:05:41,930 --> 01:05:39,450
did and what he didn't do just as a

1470
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:41,940
thought to go somewhere with it I have a

1471
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:43,950
fellow researcher in western Washington

1472
01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:45,930
the two of us have figured out how to

1473
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:48,089
generate Paul lightning on demand which

1474
01:05:53,630 --> 01:05:50,490
is a thing that previously had only been

1475
01:05:55,339 --> 01:05:53,640
attributed to him and we can do that now

1476
01:05:57,050 --> 01:05:55,349
we don't see it as a source of energy

1477
01:06:02,150 --> 01:05:57,060
but we see more it as a medium for

1478
01:06:04,790 --> 01:06:02,160
processing things right I had a comment

1479
01:06:07,809 --> 01:06:04,800
related to what Bernie had said that he

1480
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:07,819
was not aware of any suppression of

1481
01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:10,050
inventions and a lot of you know there's

1482
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:12,180
a lot of conspiracy theories about that

1483
01:06:17,030 --> 01:06:13,980
and all but that the fact of the matter

1484
01:06:18,370 --> 01:06:17,040
is is that it is well documented the

1485
01:06:21,260 --> 01:06:18,380
government the United States government

1486
01:06:26,270 --> 01:06:21,270
itself provides the information that

1487
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:26,280
certain inventions are suppressed not in

1488
01:06:31,460 --> 01:06:28,050
not in terms of what we conventionally

1489
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:31,470
think of but in terms of secrecy orders

1490
01:06:36,980 --> 01:06:35,250
I sent away a few years ago to get

1491
01:06:40,460 --> 01:06:36,990
through the Freedom of Information Act

1492
01:06:43,849 --> 01:06:40,470
to the Patent Office and asked for a

1493
01:06:46,099 --> 01:06:43,859
listing of all of the just statistics

1494
01:06:47,839 --> 01:06:46,109
because they won't release the names of

1495
01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:47,849
the patents but I asked for the

1496
01:06:52,970 --> 01:06:49,920
statistics in which they had issued

1497
01:06:55,220 --> 01:06:52,980
secrecy orders and if you have ever seen

1498
01:06:58,730 --> 01:06:55,230
a secrecy order it disallows the

1499
01:07:01,430 --> 01:06:58,740
inventor to even talk publish or say

1500
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:01,440
anything about the invention that has

1501
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:03,680
the secrecy order because it's a legal

1502
01:07:08,690 --> 01:07:06,690
enforceable document by the executive

1503
01:07:10,550 --> 01:07:08,700
department you know that that they

1504
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:10,560
cannot talk about it or anything but

1505
01:07:15,460 --> 01:07:13,410
their statistics were at that time just

1506
01:07:19,790 --> 01:07:15,470
a few years ago that there were

1507
01:07:23,809 --> 01:07:19,800
approximately 6,000 secrecy orders well

1508
01:07:27,230 --> 01:07:23,819
on 6000 inventions which nobody could

1509
01:07:29,150 --> 01:07:27,240
find anything out about and which the

1510
01:07:32,210 --> 01:07:29,160
inventors could not talk about or

1511
01:07:34,430 --> 01:07:32,220
publish about so if you're interested in

1512
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:34,440
I mean the question of suppression I

1513
01:07:39,020 --> 01:07:37,170
mean it was it's it's done under the

1514
01:07:40,339 --> 01:07:39,030
guise of you know it to protect the

1515
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:40,349
national security of the United States

1516
01:07:43,780 --> 01:07:41,970
which i think is important because you

1517
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:43,790
wouldn't want people to invent a

1518
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:46,160
a gun obviously that that you know

1519
01:07:50,050 --> 01:07:48,170
perhaps as a poor gun or something could

1520
01:07:52,300 --> 01:07:50,060
people be running around killing people

1521
01:07:54,940 --> 01:07:52,310
or whatever but the fact of the matter

1522
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:54,950
is that there are at least 6,000

1523
01:08:00,580 --> 01:07:57,920
inventions that the that the Patent

1524
01:08:02,860 --> 01:08:00,590
Office has already established the

1525
01:08:04,750 --> 01:08:02,870
secrecy orders on and since nineteen

1526
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:04,760
forty-two because they sent me the the

1527
01:08:09,340 --> 01:08:07,610
thought it was 47 that the National

1528
01:08:11,230 --> 01:08:09,350
Security Act came through well it may

1529
01:08:13,420 --> 01:08:11,240
have been they had secrecy orders even

1530
01:08:15,970 --> 01:08:13,430
before 1947 okay but I think there's a

1531
01:08:17,380 --> 01:08:15,980
difference here and let me finish we're

1532
01:08:20,740 --> 01:08:17,390
going to finish rather than being

1533
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:20,750
interrupted the since nineteen forty-two

1534
01:08:26,500 --> 01:08:23,810
there had been over 10,000 secrecy

1535
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:26,510
orders established but they do lift them

1536
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:29,210
after certain periods of time but in any

1537
01:08:32,140 --> 01:08:30,530
case I just want to make it clear that

1538
01:08:33,700 --> 01:08:32,150
there have been secrets yours and there

1539
01:08:37,210 --> 01:08:33,710
are thousands of inventions out there

1540
01:08:39,130 --> 01:08:37,220
that nobody knows about and obviously

1541
01:08:42,430 --> 01:08:39,140
you know some of those I could include

1542
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:42,440
advanced technologies that that you for

1543
01:08:45,370 --> 01:08:44,000
folks have been doing research on that

1544
01:08:47,890 --> 01:08:45,380
you wouldn't know about because the

1545
01:08:49,570 --> 01:08:47,900
inventor can't talk about it okay no

1546
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:49,580
sure well that lepers experience all

1547
01:08:53,950 --> 01:08:51,770
yeah certainly this crossed my mind a

1548
01:08:55,210 --> 01:08:53,960
bit when when we were applying for the

1549
01:08:56,829 --> 01:08:55,220
patent on the zero-point energy device

1550
01:08:58,240 --> 01:08:56,839
about well you know maybe there's some

1551
01:09:01,270 --> 01:08:58,250
chance this will happen i hate the cs

1552
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:01,280
secrecy order put over us but in fact

1553
01:09:06,480 --> 01:09:04,130
nothing whatsoever I never ever crossed

1554
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:06,490
my radar screen but there was not any

1555
01:09:11,590 --> 01:09:09,410
possibility that's happening and it

1556
01:09:14,500 --> 01:09:11,600
didn't and that proves you the one or

1557
01:09:15,970 --> 01:09:14,510
two things either that they don't do

1558
01:09:17,500 --> 01:09:15,980
these secrecy things very often and out

1559
01:09:18,789 --> 01:09:17,510
in this area or they've got this so

1560
01:09:21,250 --> 01:09:18,799
wrong you know it's not gonna work they

1561
01:09:23,289 --> 01:09:21,260
don't care well well that's a

1562
01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:23,299
possibility Bernie but maybe it wasn't

1563
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:25,910
it you know dangerous enough that would

1564
01:09:29,860 --> 01:09:28,130
that would threaten the security the

1565
01:09:31,510 --> 01:09:29,870
United States and some fashion but there

1566
01:09:34,809 --> 01:09:31,520
are at least six hours now because I I

1567
01:09:36,190 --> 01:09:34,819
checked just maybe a few months ago as

1568
01:09:38,620 --> 01:09:36,200
well and there still is about the same

1569
01:09:41,440 --> 01:09:38,630
numbers or what well I don't think it's

1570
01:09:43,300 --> 01:09:41,450
going to apply our policy for most of us

1571
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:43,310
i think is to publish these results once

1572
01:09:46,780 --> 01:09:44,210
they go out into the open literature

1573
01:09:48,130 --> 01:09:46,790
they can't be suppressed and and they're

1574
01:09:49,750 --> 01:09:48,140
they're not going to gag academics

1575
01:09:51,700 --> 01:09:49,760
because that's not going to happen right

1576
01:09:53,410 --> 01:09:51,710
well that's what i've said you know to

1577
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:53,420
keep you from being suppressed just

1578
01:09:56,270 --> 01:09:54,570
publish it on the Internet

1579
01:09:57,319 --> 01:09:56,280
there better ways of suppressing in the

1580
01:09:58,669 --> 01:09:57,329
old days they used to burn you at the

1581
01:10:06,620 --> 01:09:58,679
stake for heresy now they just don't

1582
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:06,630
fund you and then from the science

1583
01:10:11,959 --> 01:10:09,690
fiction world there are two Robert

1584
01:10:13,129 --> 01:10:11,969
Heinlein stories and I'm only going to

1585
01:10:17,390 --> 01:10:13,139
be able to remember the name of one of

1586
01:10:19,459 --> 01:10:17,400
them what happens if a simple energy

1587
01:10:26,569 --> 01:10:19,469
source is invented and one was called

1588
01:10:29,450 --> 01:10:26,579
brown shoe where the hippie living was

1589
01:10:32,089 --> 01:10:29,460
girlfriend figures it out and he has to

1590
01:10:34,729 --> 01:10:32,099
on then spend ten years going back and

1591
01:10:36,410 --> 01:10:34,739
getting a PhD and becoming part of his

1592
01:10:40,459 --> 01:10:36,420
father's company and wearing suits and

1593
01:10:42,290 --> 01:10:40,469
ties and slowly injecting this into

1594
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:42,300
society until it can't be stopped

1595
01:10:47,689 --> 01:10:45,449
because he realized that um reputation

1596
01:10:50,410 --> 01:10:47,699
is everything for for alternative

1597
01:10:52,669 --> 01:10:50,420
science that it would be easily stopped

1598
01:10:56,450 --> 01:10:52,679
anything you could think of to do it it

1599
01:10:59,500 --> 01:10:56,460
would be easily stopped except to have

1600
01:11:02,859 --> 01:10:59,510
it be a slow business development so

1601
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:02,869
just just not suppression but just um

1602
01:11:08,629 --> 01:11:06,810
disbelief and Prejudice it's probably a

1603
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:08,639
much bigger bigger than we think even if

1604
01:11:13,700 --> 01:11:12,000
we have something to sell you can then

1605
01:11:15,530 --> 01:11:13,710
be jailed because everybody knows it

1606
01:11:21,530 --> 01:11:15,540
doesn't exist and you're running a scam

1607
01:11:24,589 --> 01:11:21,540
like de Forest was almost jailed for

1608
01:11:29,569 --> 01:11:24,599
pretending that the the diode vacuum

1609
01:11:32,740 --> 01:11:29,579
tube could be part of a radio but that

1610
01:11:38,540 --> 01:11:32,750
was one hyman story another one was a

1611
01:11:41,149 --> 01:11:38,550
space opera type where a worship that

1612
01:11:44,089 --> 01:11:41,159
had gone out to the planets to dig

1613
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:44,099
uranium came back 50 years later and all

1614
01:11:49,490 --> 01:11:46,770
the cities were abandoned and that was

1615
01:11:52,189 --> 01:11:49,500
because a little electromagnetic device

1616
01:11:55,100 --> 01:11:52,199
was discovered that you could run your

1617
01:11:57,979 --> 01:11:55,110
your farm implements by building this

1618
01:12:03,169 --> 01:11:57,989
thing with several coils so after all of

1619
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:03,179
the changing the economy died down it

1620
01:12:06,959 --> 01:12:04,650
was all turning communities no big

1621
01:12:10,529 --> 01:12:06,969
cities so that was his his

1622
01:12:14,700 --> 01:12:10,539
of what energy device would do to

1623
01:12:19,049 --> 01:12:14,710
society I'll just quickly one third one

1624
01:12:21,870 --> 01:12:19,059
is that I know of is the bomb on and the

1625
01:12:25,310 --> 01:12:21,880
method nita society community in

1626
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:25,320
Switzerland I think it is yes that he

1627
01:12:29,969 --> 01:12:28,090
apparently has a device could be a hopes

1628
01:12:31,350 --> 01:12:29,979
you know it could be maybe has something

1629
01:12:33,149 --> 01:12:31,360
he doesn't know how it works or maybe

1630
01:12:36,270 --> 01:12:33,159
it's exactly what he thinks that he

1631
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:36,280
won't let anybody else find out about it

1632
01:12:40,259 --> 01:12:37,690
because he's convinced that it would

1633
01:12:42,270 --> 01:12:40,269
take down civilization they think the

1634
01:12:44,239 --> 01:12:42,280
world is not ready for it right it's

1635
01:12:46,739 --> 01:12:44,249
actually a religious community that

1636
01:12:48,299 --> 01:12:46,749
they're keeping it to themselves or they

1637
01:12:50,399 --> 01:12:48,309
think that if they release it that that

1638
01:12:54,660 --> 01:12:50,409
the the mass death that the changes

1639
01:12:58,890 --> 01:12:54,670
would cause is too much to have on their

1640
01:13:01,500 --> 01:12:58,900
conscience but the front bomb their

1641
01:13:03,330 --> 01:13:01,510
research about such devices going on but

1642
01:13:06,049 --> 01:13:03,340
to my knowledge none of them have been

1643
01:13:09,839 --> 01:13:06,059
completely successful to any

1644
01:13:12,750 --> 01:13:09,849
demonstrable or alive are repeatable

1645
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:12,760
extent all right if it was then we don't

1646
01:13:18,180 --> 01:13:15,610
rehab them of course I mean if it was

1647
01:13:20,910 --> 01:13:18,190
real well cold fusion is real but it

1648
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:20,920
lacks the of the financial backing that

1649
01:13:25,709 --> 01:13:22,719
needs to develop it to get out to

1650
01:13:32,850 --> 01:13:25,719
commercial levels yeah oh you're only

1651
01:13:36,029 --> 01:13:32,860
partly right but not completely well I'm

1652
01:13:38,129 --> 01:13:36,039
I want to go back to what dan brought up

1653
01:13:39,569 --> 01:13:38,139
that the question of and appreciate that

1654
01:13:42,180 --> 01:13:39,579
we know we do need to ask this question

1655
01:13:46,589 --> 01:13:42,190
of why are we developing greater and

1656
01:13:48,569 --> 01:13:46,599
greater energy sources and i do i think

1657
01:13:51,049 --> 01:13:48,579
i agree with you Dan that if we do that

1658
01:13:53,879 --> 01:13:51,059
it would create many problems such as

1659
01:13:55,469 --> 01:13:53,889
not having any scarcity you know we

1660
01:13:58,609 --> 01:13:55,479
would not have any consequences for our

1661
01:14:01,890 --> 01:13:58,619
actions and it could be like you said

1662
01:14:03,180 --> 01:14:01,900
sort of catastrophic or dangerous given

1663
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:03,190
the human condition as it currently

1664
01:14:07,469 --> 01:14:06,010
stands so I think the most important

1665
01:14:09,839 --> 01:14:07,479
thing even more important in finding

1666
01:14:11,009 --> 01:14:09,849
more energy is to change the human

1667
01:14:12,569 --> 01:14:11,019
consciousness or the state of our

1668
01:14:14,459 --> 01:14:12,579
society so that we could deal with that

1669
01:14:16,469 --> 01:14:14,469
energy because with greater energy comes

1670
01:14:17,740 --> 01:14:16,479
greater power and you know we don't

1671
01:14:20,470 --> 01:14:17,750
necessarily have the

1672
01:14:23,770 --> 01:14:20,480
to deal with that power at this point so

1673
01:14:26,350 --> 01:14:23,780
I for I think both teams of research

1674
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:26,360
going on you know looking at the model

1675
01:14:31,690 --> 01:14:29,690
of Einstein suggesting to President

1676
01:14:35,710 --> 01:14:31,700
Roosevelt about looking into nuclear

1677
01:14:37,510 --> 01:14:35,720
bombs in World War two with no intention

1678
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:37,520
of that starting a nuclear arms race how

1679
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:39,890
do we as physicists take responsibility

1680
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:41,360
for the fact that especially in our

1681
01:14:46,780 --> 01:14:43,280
current world when we do invent an

1682
01:14:48,370 --> 01:14:46,790
important discovery the first people

1683
01:14:51,610 --> 01:14:48,380
interested in it are probably the US

1684
01:14:53,290 --> 01:14:51,620
government for military purposes and how

1685
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:53,300
do we deal with you know the fact that

1686
01:14:56,770 --> 01:14:54,650
we also take some responsibility for

1687
01:14:58,030 --> 01:14:56,780
that and there's no one controlling the

1688
01:15:00,010 --> 01:14:58,040
use of these things some of these new

1689
01:15:02,410 --> 01:15:00,020
energies will be benign and what I've

1690
01:15:05,230 --> 01:15:02,420
been talking about in in Daniel 2 is

1691
01:15:08,530 --> 01:15:05,240
very difficult to imagine it being

1692
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:08,540
weaponized ball though it can be useful

1693
01:15:12,730 --> 01:15:10,730
very useful practical somewhat good

1694
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:12,740
concentration energy levels it's not

1695
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:14,570
high enough to for the military to take

1696
01:15:18,460 --> 01:15:16,730
interest in it I'm not sure sir you

1697
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:18,470
could probably make warships and

1698
01:15:23,740 --> 01:15:21,410
submarines which which could use

1699
01:15:26,050 --> 01:15:23,750
seawater and and basically have high

1700
01:15:28,210 --> 01:15:26,060
power density motors and cipher ghazal

1701
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:28,220
nanotechnology is much more dense and

1702
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:32,090
that census right but your points

1703
01:15:35,170 --> 01:15:33,770
well-taken I don't know whether we

1704
01:15:36,580 --> 01:15:35,180
should or not I mean I've considered

1705
01:15:38,500 --> 01:15:36,590
abandoning my research for this reason

1706
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:38,510
but in the but in the short term I think

1707
01:15:42,580 --> 01:15:40,730
the energy deliver were in and the and

1708
01:15:45,430 --> 01:15:42,590
the environmental damage we're doing to

1709
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:45,440
the world especially wiping out roughly

1710
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:46,850
half the species within the next hundred

1711
01:15:52,150 --> 01:15:48,320
years which is which would make us a

1712
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:52,160
mass extinguisher of life I think is the

1713
01:15:55,330 --> 01:15:53,570
greatest crime there is and I think in

1714
01:15:57,910 --> 01:15:55,340
the short term a new energy source is

1715
01:15:59,830 --> 01:15:57,920
almost essential to forestall this or

1716
01:16:01,410 --> 01:15:59,840
eliminate the possibility but in the

1717
01:16:04,090 --> 01:16:01,420
longer term is what I'm worried about

1718
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:04,100
and so I've teetered about whether I

1719
01:16:09,190 --> 01:16:05,330
should walk away from this or not but

1720
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:09,200
I'm not going to and one other safeguard

1721
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:11,090
to some extent is when several of us

1722
01:16:15,490 --> 01:16:12,530
have said

1723
01:16:18,490 --> 01:16:15,500
Daniel that we need to just publish our

1724
01:16:19,930 --> 01:16:18,500
results because if we put it out to

1725
01:16:23,050 --> 01:16:19,940
everybody in sort of a level playing

1726
01:16:27,070 --> 01:16:23,060
field and at that point we can hope that

1727
01:16:29,140 --> 01:16:27,080
the good outweighs the bad I'm intrigued

1728
01:16:34,140 --> 01:16:29,150
by what Daniel said when you said just

1729
01:16:38,100 --> 01:16:34,150
about the negative consequences of

1730
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:38,110
ubiquitous energy not in too much and I

1731
01:16:42,580 --> 01:16:40,970
imagined that there are two stages with

1732
01:16:44,980 --> 01:16:42,590
this as there are with many things and

1733
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:44,990
that is as you develop more of it well

1734
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:46,010
the first thing that's going to happen

1735
01:16:49,780 --> 01:16:48,290
is everybody's going to get an SUV and

1736
01:16:53,650 --> 01:16:49,790
my little car I won't be able to see out

1737
01:16:56,440 --> 01:16:53,660
it's always sad and then people will do

1738
01:16:58,450 --> 01:16:56,450
what Daniel said and you know will rape

1739
01:17:02,100 --> 01:16:58,460
the oceans and do various other things

1740
01:17:04,510 --> 01:17:02,110
but that's sort of a scarcity mentality

1741
01:17:07,480 --> 01:17:04,520
finally when we moved beyond that

1742
01:17:09,910 --> 01:17:07,490
scarcity mentality that's when we can

1743
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:09,920
become a more civilized civilization and

1744
01:17:16,930 --> 01:17:12,650
we can deal with actually having a

1745
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:16,940
greater degree of power and and the lack

1746
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:19,010
of scarcity and I say this you're going

1747
01:17:23,590 --> 01:17:20,330
to laugh because it sounds like a joke

1748
01:17:25,450 --> 01:17:23,600
but I don't mean this as a joke I know

1749
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:25,460
what it's going to be like in the 23rd

1750
01:17:32,620 --> 01:17:27,890
or 24th century because I watched Star

1751
01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:32,630
Trek in particular the concept of the

1752
01:17:37,420 --> 01:17:35,360
replicator is fascinating because with

1753
01:17:39,610 --> 01:17:37,430
the replicator everybody can have as

1754
01:17:42,790 --> 01:17:39,620
much of anything as they want so things

1755
01:17:44,980 --> 01:17:42,800
have no intrinsic value anymore and at

1756
01:17:46,690 --> 01:17:44,990
first probably when the first person

1757
01:17:48,010 --> 01:17:46,700
will build the replicator you know he'll

1758
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:48,020
use it for all sorts of terrible things

1759
01:17:51,030 --> 01:17:48,970
and build up

1760
01:17:52,950 --> 01:17:51,040
collect demise early and collect all

1761
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:52,960
sorts of stuff but eventually when

1762
01:17:57,180 --> 01:17:55,090
everybody's got a Replicators at that

1763
01:17:58,770 --> 01:17:57,190
point we'll be able to deal with it we

1764
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,780
won't have this hair city mentality

1765
01:18:01,980 --> 01:18:00,400
there's a historical precedent to

1766
01:18:05,130 --> 01:18:01,990
actually answer that a little bit and it

1767
01:18:07,230 --> 01:18:05,140
has to do with population every single

1768
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:07,240
nation on this planet regardless of race

1769
01:18:12,620 --> 01:18:09,040
or culture when they get a certain

1770
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:12,630
degree of material sufficiency stops

1771
01:18:17,970 --> 01:18:16,000
blossoming their population that is an

1772
01:18:19,230 --> 01:18:17,980
example of we've learned how to get

1773
01:18:20,610 --> 01:18:19,240
beyond the scarcity we need more

1774
01:18:24,170 --> 01:18:20,620
children need more children to take care

1775
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:24,180
of us if I only say enough we're okay I

1776
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:26,530
do put a little bit of hope in humanity

1777
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:35,760
just a brief aside in regard to some

1778
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:37,840
earlier comments about Tesla given

1779
01:18:43,020 --> 01:18:40,570
research that has been seen in SSC and

1780
01:18:44,730 --> 01:18:43,030
elsewhere about biological effects of

1781
01:18:46,620 --> 01:18:44,740
low frequency radiation I think we

1782
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:46,630
should be grateful that he was not

1783
01:18:54,540 --> 01:18:48,610
allowed to start the entire Earth

1784
01:18:57,180 --> 01:18:54,550
resonating at eight Hertz but on on to a

1785
01:18:59,430 --> 01:18:57,190
question for the panel um that we've

1786
01:19:04,530 --> 01:18:59,440
been doing some brainstorming about the

1787
01:19:07,350 --> 01:19:04,540
effects of having all of these compact

1788
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:07,360
energy sources in as much abundance as

1789
01:19:13,770 --> 01:19:10,690
they're needed up but how slow and

1790
01:19:16,110 --> 01:19:13,780
painful is it going to be to get there I

1791
01:19:21,780 --> 01:19:16,120
don't know how much is EPF box costs to

1792
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:21,790
build but uh it sounds like if the semi

1793
01:19:28,590 --> 01:19:26,290
conductor based approach for a second

1794
01:19:32,340 --> 01:19:28,600
law device pans out we're talking about

1795
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:32,350
something like a coffee can full of what

1796
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:33,970
amount to microchips that cost something

1797
01:19:37,980 --> 01:19:35,530
like a hundred dollars an ounce to

1798
01:19:40,260 --> 01:19:37,990
manufacture how rapidly can this

1799
01:19:42,510 --> 01:19:40,270
technology be distributed how how

1800
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:42,520
quickly do you foresee it spreading I've

1801
01:19:47,370 --> 01:19:44,290
heard historically it takes 40 years for

1802
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:47,380
any new technology to take hold so if

1803
01:19:51,750 --> 01:19:48,610
you if you look at something like the

1804
01:19:53,670 --> 01:19:51,760
nuclear industry at the time December 42

1805
01:19:56,010 --> 01:19:53,680
and Fermi started the first atomic pile

1806
01:19:57,450 --> 01:19:56,020
to when nuclear power plants became

1807
01:20:00,070 --> 01:19:57,460
ubiquitous it was 30 years something

1808
01:20:01,810 --> 01:20:00,080
like that but that was a crash course so

1809
01:20:03,670 --> 01:20:01,820
point energy I've actually priced it out

1810
01:20:05,770 --> 01:20:03,680
because we've talked to investors in

1811
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:05,780
various other people and it ends up that

1812
01:20:13,270 --> 01:20:10,370
a kilowatt system is far less than a

1813
01:20:17,620 --> 01:20:13,280
hundred dollars and it's producible with

1814
01:20:20,230 --> 01:20:17,630
today's technology just to give you

1815
01:20:22,990 --> 01:20:20,240
specifics we need lots of little

1816
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:23,000
nanotubes and so on it's essentially a

1817
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:25,130
CD technology so the way that you make

1818
01:20:30,190 --> 01:20:27,650
cds or dvds and stamp them out we make a

1819
01:20:31,990 --> 01:20:30,200
stack of 20 of those it requires a pump

1820
01:20:34,900 --> 01:20:32,000
the pump is pretty much the same as

1821
01:20:39,349 --> 01:20:34,910
you'd use in an aquarium and a few

1822
01:20:46,829 --> 01:20:41,969
somehow I guess this would be a very

1823
01:20:49,589 --> 01:20:46,839
stimulating evening okay it's now nine